good afternoon everybody it feels like 00:03 the start of an evening but it is only 00:05 the afternoon um i'm sarah tang i'm the 00:08 digital content curator 00:10 for the anthropology of motherhood 00:12 project i'm going to 00:13 give you a quick note about housekeeping 00:16 before i throw it to amy 00:19 in the gallery 00:22 so we just asked that you keep 00:24 yourselves muted 00:25 at a consideration to all who are here 00:28 and we also just wanted to give you a 00:30 note that um this 00:31 evening's program will be recorded so if 00:34 you don't wish 00:35 to have yourself show up in this 00:37 recording you can 00:39 hide your self-view or change your name 00:42 on there whatever that may be 00:44 and i'm going to throw it over to dr 00:47 amy bowman mcelhom 00:50 over in the carlow university art 00:52 gallery 00:54 hi everyone thanks so much sarah and 00:56 thanks everyone for uh joining 00:58 us uh this afternoon slash evening 01:01 um uh i am uh 01:04 the director of the carlow university 01:06 art gallery i'm also 01:08 um i wear a couple hats here including a 01:10 director of the art program 01:12 and i'm an assistant professor in art 01:14 history um 01:15 i have the privilege of being co-curator 01:19 of the anthropology of motherhood 01:21 exhibition culture of care 01:24 and fran flaherty is the founder of the 01:26 project 01:27 uh sarah is our digital content uh 01:30 curator and uh maestro of the website 01:34 um and and fran is is co-curator of this 01:37 as well 01:38 um and just to give you a little 01:42 uh you know background about the show 01:45 and 01:45 and sort of what um what it's about 01:49 first i want to highlight uh we have a 01:53 two amazing artists uh that will be 01:55 leading this panel 01:56 uh today jess and tara whose work is 01:59 included 02:00 in the show um also olga is on the call 02:04 as well whose work is in the show was 02:06 too um so the idea of anthropology and 02:09 motherhood culture of care 02:11 uh came from france you can speak more 02:13 eloquently about it 02:14 but it's a it's an ongoing uh 02:16 exhibitionary project that 02:18 started uh 2015 i believe 02:21 and it was cura originally curated in 02:23 the um 02:26 pittsburgh arts festival where fran uh 02:29 did a very unique 02:30 and radical thing where she uh 02:33 curated a show that centered on 02:36 ideas of motherhood lived experiences of 02:39 motherhood perspectives of motherhood 02:42 and combined it with a space of respite 02:44 and a nursing space and an amenity 02:48 and although that shouldn't be radical 02:50 it is 02:51 in terms of of you know usually art 02:54 spaces are very segregated 02:56 in the sense that our only art is there 02:59 um there are certain codes of behavior 03:01 that are encoded into 03:03 um sort of museum decorum that are very 03:06 much 03:07 the found that are rest on sort of a 03:09 very white 03:10 western idea of how one interacts with 03:14 and perceives art and values art 03:16 um and fran uh disrupted that and 03:19 disrupted that 03:20 by bringing um bringing in uh 03:23 the visual uh culture 03:26 um of caregiving uh focused around 03:29 mothers 03:30 as it has iterated um this version of 03:33 the show was originally 03:34 and uh presented in as a digitally 03:37 native show with the thrivers arts 03:38 festival this year 03:39 um due to the pandemic but we were lucky 03:42 to bring it to carlow 03:43 and actually physically install it so 03:45 that's what that's um 03:47 what you see here and that's where i'm 03:48 at in the gallery at carlow 03:51 in oakland um and the shift 03:54 i think with this iteration that's 03:55 that's very critical is that 03:57 it expands uh the notion of motherhood 04:00 into 04:01 a bigger idea of caregiving 04:04 and it examines all these different 04:08 dynamics whether it's idea of nutrition 04:12 idea of sustenance uh the ideas 04:16 of um and caring for people with food 04:20 allergies the the 04:21 the kind of these basics of human life 04:24 um 04:24 as well as domestic labor um and the 04:27 invisibility 04:28 of that all and the physicality of it 04:30 all 04:31 and again it shouldn't be radical but it 04:35 is and i can't stress 04:37 enough how um 04:40 how underrepresented this type of work 04:42 is 04:43 um in the art world um and that's 04:46 a big part of that has to do with the 04:48 art world being a very 04:49 heteronormative male white space 04:53 and um and and fran's uh project here 04:57 has really 04:57 um you know helps elevate and show the 05:00 value and the beauty 05:02 and the artfulness of of these 05:04 experiences 05:05 so with that i'm going to throw it back 05:07 to sarah and i also just want to thank 05:09 all of the amazing artists who 05:10 participated in the show 05:11 um that it's been a challenging year 05:15 and and we're so grateful to have your 05:17 work um 05:18 here at carlow sarah 05:22 great what a wonderful introduction amy 05:25 um it's really an incredible exhibition 05:28 it's kind of a shame that it's happening 05:30 during the pandemic 05:31 but i would encourage everyone if you 05:33 haven't um to take a look at the website 05:36 at anthropology of motherhood.com i'll 05:39 post it in the chat a little bit later 05:41 and we also have a link on our website 05:44 too 05:44 over a virtual exhibition of what is 05:47 showing at carla university art gallery 05:49 so you can kind of take a closer look at 05:51 each of the incredible 05:52 artists in their work i see that we do 05:55 have several of our participating 05:57 artists 05:58 on this program this evening so that's 06:00 really exciting 06:01 so i'm going to introduce tara and 06:05 jessica 06:06 um they are both incredible mothers they 06:10 are both incredible artists 06:12 tara faye is an independent curator 06:15 producer 06:16 conceptual performing artist and mama 06:19 from buffalo 06:20 new york she serves as a board member 06:22 and associate curator at bunker projects 06:26 and is a member of the carnegie art 06:28 associates as well as the associated 06:30 artists of pittsburgh 06:32 her curatorial process is rooted in 06:34 creating 06:35 space for underrepresented black and 06:38 brown artists 06:39 she has curated exhibitions for the 06:41 august wilson 06:42 african-american cultural center 06:45 philosophy project space 06:47 and at denison university in granville 06:50 ohio 06:52 she her upcoming projects include an 06:54 exhibition 06:55 at the brew house association and as a 06:58 guest curator for seton hill 07:00 university's harlan gallery 07:03 jessica moss is an artist independent 07:06 curator and arts worker 07:07 she reimagines new frameworks and 07:10 strategizes ways to build maintain and 07:12 sustain 07:13 black autonomous spaces devoted to the 07:15 survival 07:16 resistance and healing of black people 07:19 her dedication to black space stems from 07:22 a housing redevelopment project 07:24 that began in 2007 when she purchased 07:27 a neglected property in historic black 07:30 community and converted it 07:31 into a creative community hub for black 07:34 artists and students 07:36 she received her bachelor's in fine art 07:39 from carnegie mellon university 07:41 a masters in arts administration policy 07:44 and management 07:45 from the school of art institute of 07:46 chicago and masters in studies 07:49 of the law from the university of 07:50 pittsburgh school of law 07:52 wow these are clearly two 07:55 incredible women humans 07:58 caregivers all the above so before we 08:02 kind of throw it to 08:04 um tara and jessica i want to once again 08:07 give um a quick little disclaimer to 08:11 all the participants on the call we are 08:13 recording this program 08:14 for folks who can't be here to check it 08:16 out at a later time 08:18 so if you do not wish to be visible just 08:20 um change your name or hide your self 08:21 view on the screen 08:23 and i also want to encourage folks to 08:27 feel free to unmute yourselves if you 08:30 want to ask a question of tara or 08:33 jessica to chime in 08:35 but if you're not asking a question we 08:37 do ask that you keep yourselves muted 08:40 and for those who aren't who are 08:42 newcomers to using the zoom platform 08:44 you can mute yourselves by hovering over 08:46 your self view there's a little three 08:48 dot um kind of settings button and if 08:52 you click that you can kind of meter and 08:53 mute yourself 08:55 and i also would encourage folks to use 08:57 the zoom group 08:58 chat to chime in about your thoughts 09:01 that sort of a thing so 09:02 we can all kind of join this amazing 09:05 conversation in this amazing panel 09:07 so without further ado um let's 09:10 let's throw it to um tara and jessica 09:14 and talk about rest and relaxation 09:17 as mothers 09:20 thanks sarah thanks fran thanks amy uh 09:24 tara and i wanted to start our program 09:27 today in a way that 09:29 um i think all zoom 09:32 programs should start we're gonna pop 09:34 bottles right tara 09:36 yeah that's the plan if i can get mine 09:38 open 09:39 you're going to watch us struggle 09:40 overnight 09:45 this is about uh resting and relaxation 09:49 and so we encourage you guys 09:51 um to also join us in 09:54 drinking festivities 09:57 it's friday and my little ones might pop 09:59 in 10:00 jess what is max doing she's screaming 10:03 you can't hear her in the background 10:05 no is she oh no 10:08 what's the matter 10:13 jessica if you're having trouble you can 10:16 take the bottle and 10:17 very very carefully turn it upside down 10:20 for like 10 seconds 10:21 and then turn it back up what that does 10:24 is it wets the cork 10:25 and then when you oh you got it okay 10:27 never mind yeah i worked in fine 10:30 dining did you really i don't think of 10:33 you as doing work like that i always 10:34 think of you as like higher level 10:38 i think of myself as doing drudgery 10:41 what you like 10:42 [Music] 10:44 but i got it open 10:47 i didn't know you were in the service 10:49 industry 10:50 can you grab mama a towel you can just 10:54 get one off the bathroom door 10:58 so tara and i have been kicking it all 11:00 day we started to call at 10 o'clock 11:01 this morning 11:03 uh talking about the nina's 11:06 childhood home project in north and 11:09 tryon uh north carolina 11:12 um i i dropped off a bottle 11:16 of this sparkling rose tara this morning 11:19 in the anticipation of our discussion 11:22 this evening 11:24 she's probably working on two other zoom 11:27 calls during 11:28 this conversation i'm not now i was 11:30 texting my 11:31 friend alana because she's new to 11:33 clubhouse and she was telling me about 11:34 all these rooms 11:35 and she's like let's go cause this 11:37 course and i'm like girl i got a call 11:39 okay a lot of beautiful alana you met 11:43 her 11:43 what is clothes i know alana 11:47 okay so clubhouse is essentially like i 11:49 guess it would be considered a social 11:51 media platform 11:52 but it's for all audio so you can join 11:54 different rooms and you can contribute 11:56 to conversations 11:58 and at first it was like this really 12:00 cool niche thing but it's starting to 12:02 grow 12:03 so i don't know it's anything from like 12:05 discussing contemporary art to 12:08 like um 12:11 do men still have side checks like it's 12:15 it's very it's become varied and 12:17 expansive but alana's new she's like 12:19 girl hop in these rooms 12:21 clubhouse 12:25 you do you have to pay to be a part of 12:28 clubhouse oh you have to be invited i'll 12:29 send you an invite 12:30 oh oh okay and you can also 12:34 tailor the rooms so that it kind of 12:37 aligns with your interests 12:39 okay just to note for those of us who've 12:42 jumped on the program 12:43 what are you going to say sarah join 12:45 clubhouse but you got to get an invite 12:48 that's like very exclusive dave from 12:51 charlotte send me an invite 12:53 dave okay wait this is perfect so tara 12:56 how did we meet each other 12:58 so we met it was 13:02 through social status right and i think 13:04 you got my information 13:06 from dave and did you text me or send me 13:08 an email 13:09 it wasn't dave it was what's his name 13:11 well it was brendan right in charlotte 13:13 yes yes so 13:17 i can't remember if you text her email 13:18 but you asked to meet 13:20 and i was like who is this like people 13:22 people aren't that friendly they just 13:23 want to like hang out and meet 13:26 and then i remember we met at zeke's and 13:28 you were like so 13:30 beautiful i was like oh my gosh i wasn't 13:33 like ready to meet this person today 13:36 i don't even think i had like dressed 13:37 nice or anything 13:39 and then i remember like i was really 13:42 curious about you and i wanted to know 13:44 stuff about you 13:45 but you were like really focused on like 13:48 getting to know me 13:49 and like what i did and my interest and 13:51 i was like this is so nice 13:53 and then it wasn't even until later that 13:56 i found out like the scale of 13:58 the work you had been doing in charlotte 14:00 and i remember i think i like found your 14:02 cv and i was like i can't believe he's 14:04 interested in what i had going on 14:06 and and you were in law school at the 14:08 time too on top of it 14:10 and i think we like walked to east lib 14:12 and you met larry and larry has 14:13 never forgotten you and every time i 14:16 mentioned jess 14:16 he's like oh yeah jess from charlotte 14:20 that's hilarious yeah i uh when i was an 14:24 undergrad at cmu with olga who's on this 14:27 call 14:28 i started showing work at social status 14:31 uh 14:32 which is you know a sneaker retail 14:34 clothing store 14:35 here in pittsburgh it's in north 14:36 carolina is it just where else is it 14:39 tara 14:40 we're all over now so now we're in 14:41 florida houston 14:43 we have a sister store in jersey we'll 14:45 be opening in harlem i believe we're 14:47 opening in baltimore 14:49 um but yeah mostly the carolinas like we 14:51 have roots in the carolinas and i feel 14:53 like very connected 14:55 to charlotte especially like the shiloh 14:57 staff is like family 14:59 so i was showing work at the shop 15:02 here in pittsburgh and then when i moved 15:04 to charlotte 15:05 i had an exhibition there and i was just 15:07 always cool with james who's the owner 15:09 and founder of social status 15:11 and i remember i was like ins it was 15:13 like 2 000 and i know 15:14 16 and i was installing some work 15:17 and brandon who was the manager of the 15:20 charlottesville was like you got to know 15:21 tara 15:21 pittsburgh you got to know tara and i 15:23 was like who is this tara 15:26 he was like i want to send you her phone 15:27 number right now he was like do not go 15:29 to pittsburgh and not connect with her 15:31 and i was like wow 15:32 okay let me let me make this a priority 15:35 and tara you know i think it speaks to 15:38 um the the support and grace that exists 15:41 within our friendship because we're so 15:43 we're such 15:44 mirrors i felt the same way about you 15:46 and every time we have an opportunity to 15:48 engage with each other i love hearing 15:50 about 15:50 like the the diversity of projects that 15:53 you're working on 15:54 because you know it's um your ability to 15:57 activate high and low 15:59 um and to always involve such a large 16:01 community is something that i've always 16:03 been inspired about by you 16:05 you know you can wear sneakers to black 16:09 tie affairs and people don't look twice 16:11 at it i think that that is really a 16:12 unique a unique 16:14 skill that's a skill for sure 16:18 and i'm really grateful to to have the 16:20 opportunity to be aligned with you 16:23 um i think since then we've done a 16:25 couple of projects together 16:27 yeah we've like you got to like each 16:29 other in everything 16:31 that we're doing i think i've just been 16:33 trying to be like 16:34 sensitive to the fact that like max is 16:37 still pretty new and fresh 16:38 and i don't want to overwhelm you but i 16:40 feel like you're just so 16:42 like resilient and you're always wearing 16:44 multiple hats 16:45 that you could handle like most things 16:48 and especially the way like your 16:49 practice now 16:50 engages motherhood 16:53 thank you yeah max is my daughter uh 16:56 yeah sorry everybody 16:57 i'm just so used to like max and baby 16:59 max that's jessica's 17:01 beautiful daughter thank you she's 13 17:04 months now 17:05 um and i feel i mean 17:09 in the same as your creative practice i 17:11 feel very inspired by seeing you 17:13 mother and and care for neon and maddie 17:18 who are who are 5 and 10 now is that 17:20 right 17:21 yeah well maddie will be 10 but i mean 17:24 it's next month it's 17:25 actually like less than a week after 17:26 christmas her birthday's january 3rd so 17:28 like we're there as far as i'm concerned 17:30 okay tangentially does maddie get both 17:33 christmas presents and birthday presents 17:35 maddie is such an amazingly 17:39 sensitive and accommodating and 17:41 considerate person 17:43 so like we talked about christmas and 17:45 she understands now that like 17:47 santa's not real so we've been able to 17:49 have conversations about that 17:51 and i was really struggling with like 17:53 buying gifts for her because 17:55 she's like really interested in like 17:57 kawhi stuff 17:58 and like sort of japanese aesthetics and 18:01 she's like i want cool like kawaii 18:03 clothes and i want like wigs and 18:04 accessories 18:05 and i think it's beautiful that like i 18:07 can nurture and like allow her to 18:09 explore those interests 18:10 but a lot of stuff doesn't like age-wise 18:13 it just doesn't work like she's sending 18:14 me links to like adult clothes and stuff 18:16 i'm like you're only nine like you have 18:17 a little baby body so like i'm 18:19 struggling like i don't know what to get 18:20 you 18:20 and she's like well mom i don't want you 18:22 to like stress out or spend too much 18:24 and my birthday is like right after 18:26 christmas anyway and i'm just like 18:28 oh like the consideration that she has 18:31 for me like 18:32 her heart is just so pure and so sweet 18:35 like i'm so grateful 18:36 to have her yeah but that doesn't come 18:39 out of nowhere you made them like that 18:41 i feel like that but maddie always has 18:44 had 18:44 like this heightened sensitivity that 18:47 like 18:48 i don't have like i don't think i'm as 18:50 kind 18:51 as my child i think i can be but like 18:54 for her like all she knows is kindness 18:57 and like loving people 18:58 it's beautiful take credit for it that's 19:01 all you 19:03 that's you i think as olga said it's 19:05 totally a testament to your mother 19:08 we're not there a lot of it you know 19:10 nature nurture they're not just born 19:11 like that 19:12 you know like there has to be skills you 19:14 know like these um 19:16 concepts become ingrained in them and a 19:17 lot of it i think is what they see 19:19 you know and trying to emulate that so 19:21 just take that 19:23 receive thank you 19:26 yeah i was weird i was waiting for the 19:28 receiver i'll take it 19:31 so what are you up to these days here i 19:33 know you're doing so much 19:34 what's what's on your docket so i have a 19:37 show that opens next month through 19:39 brewhouse 19:40 and things are finally finally coming 19:44 together it was getting down to the wire 19:46 but i'm excited to um do a show i'm 19:50 working with a lot of emerging artists 19:52 and also some more established artists 19:55 sharon norwood 19:56 who was an exhibiting artist at the show 19:58 at denison university that you were in 20:01 and nakia who's also in the civil shrine 20:03 cohort 20:04 she agreed to be in my show 20:07 and i i was like such a fan of hers and 20:10 to even be on a call with her i was like 20:12 i don't know what to say like this is so 20:14 cool and she's like so cool and like 20:16 she's a mom 20:17 too and um so yeah just to give like 20:19 more emerging artists and some of these 20:21 artists haven't even been in exhibitions 20:23 before 20:23 the opportunity to showcase with like 20:26 such amazing like kind of mid-career 20:28 artists like i'm 20:29 very grateful and excited for that and 20:31 to see everything start to come together 20:35 um so i mean that's like my main focus 20:38 right what is the what's the show at 20:39 brewhouse about um 20:41 so it's centered on black hair culture 20:44 but with a lot of emphasis on 20:46 like viewing it through a contemporary 20:48 lens and the title is um 20:51 roots run deep a contemporary survey of 20:54 african-american hair culture 20:56 um i wanted very badly to like 20:58 incorporate frank ocean 21:01 in the title and i was able to do that 21:03 that was a line on blonde 21:06 from um futura free so 21:09 as they will get it in there you 21:11 wouldn't know like just to hear it but 21:12 yeah 21:13 so are you gonna play this song during 21:15 the exhibition ideally i want to like 21:17 tell everybody like by the way 21:19 this is a frank ocean line you're so 21:22 good at 21:22 titling ex terry you came up with black 21:25 blooded that was you 21:26 i feel like that was both of us though 21:29 that was you 100 21:30 i put this exhibition together in 2018 21:34 in charlotte north carolina and had like 21:35 50 black artists from all over the world 21:38 different media there were 70 uh 21:41 pieces in this 200 square foot gallery 21:44 it was crazy and aaron 21:47 tara you name that thank you that's 21:50 brilliant 21:51 i appreciate you like to this day i'm 21:53 like whenever anybody says anything 21:55 about black blooded 21:56 i'm like yo tara fey named this 21:58 exhibition it was an amazing name 22:01 and that was my first time going to 22:04 charlotte 22:04 like with sean and the girls and that 22:06 was like a fun trip 22:08 and they were so excited to like meet 22:10 you and be there and you stayed in the 22:13 roll-up 22:14 yes black flooded 22:17 um doesn't that go hard fran 22:22 it was good it was good the roll-up is 22:25 this space that i have 22:26 uh in charlotte north carolina it's an 22:28 artist-in-residency program that 22:30 provides time space and money for black 22:34 contemporary artists 22:35 it's a duplex that has a two-car garage 22:38 and whenever the garage is 22:40 rolled up that's the symbol for the for 22:42 the community to come and participate in 22:44 whatever event or program is happening 22:46 in the space and it also acts as 22:48 uh affordable housing uh for black 22:50 artists whenever the residency is dark 22:53 and so any way that it can be activated 22:56 um 22:56 lauren b chum who is braddock carnegie 22:59 library and also a part of civil shrine 23:01 which we'll get into in a second 23:02 um stayed there when she went with a for 23:05 a family 23:06 reunion a couple weeks ago tara was able 23:08 to stay there 23:09 during this exhibition being up uh 23:12 it's just you know if you all find 23:14 yourselves in charlotte and 23:16 you're a black contemporary artist the 23:18 space is 23:27 yeah what'd you think about that tara 23:29 your time in the space 23:30 i loved it and we got to hang out with 23:33 huxley 23:33 which the girls loved that's the dog 23:38 that was their favorite part of the trip 23:40 was being with huxley 23:42 that's so sweet but it was beautiful and 23:44 to be able to take them and for them to 23:46 see 23:46 such a powerful exhibition it was a 23:49 great experience 23:50 okay so you just mentioned uh neon 23:54 uh affectionately known as mimi and 23:57 maddie who are your two daughters 23:59 uh we have a question in the chat from 24:01 tj who says 24:02 and this will just launch here how do 24:04 you think motherhood has impacted your 24:06 creativity and artistic practice tara 24:07 i'll let you take that 24:10 i think before i was a mother 24:14 i wasn't really motivated 24:17 in a lot of ways like you know i kind of 24:20 worked to make enough money 24:22 to do like the bare minimum right but 24:24 then like 24:25 especially having maddie it just like 24:27 pushed me 24:28 to want to do more and i remember like 24:31 thinking around that 24:32 time like i like motherhood is so 24:34 beautiful and like 24:35 i truly believe that god gives you 24:38 exactly what you can handle 24:40 and when i had maddie i was very much a 24:41 single mom i was like living at home 24:43 i didn't really have a lot of support 24:45 outside of like my immediate family and 24:46 my sister 24:47 but maddie was such an incredibly calm 24:51 child all the time i never had nights 24:53 where i was like 24:54 up all night with her screaming the some 24:56 days we would just sleep all day 24:58 together 24:59 like she was just accommodating in every 25:01 capacity 25:02 like always chill always super relaxed 25:05 and like 25:06 that was what i needed in my life 25:08 because without having the level of 25:09 support i have now 25:11 i need like a calm easy going baby and 25:14 my relationship with her and my 25:15 introduction to motherhood through her 25:17 just made me want to like put beautiful 25:19 things into the universe 25:21 so i started to like try to do more 25:24 like with my interest and i remember 25:26 that was around the time like i had 25:28 enrolled in school for fashion because i 25:29 was like always interested in fashion 25:31 and 25:32 i figured like retail management was a 25:34 good direction to go 25:35 and then i wound up working for social 25:38 status 25:38 and um was able to like 25:42 kind of refocus my interest 25:45 because um james is a big advocate 25:49 for artists and also community 25:51 engagement so we would do like monthly 25:53 art showcases 25:55 and i wound up taking over that 25:58 and connected with a lot of great 26:00 artists in pittsburgh 26:01 and realized like i have this platform i 26:03 can use to showcase their work 26:05 it's free of charge they don't have to 26:06 put anything into it so i'm 26:08 that was a great opportunity and that's 26:10 kind of what got me into curation 26:13 initially um and then when i had neon it 26:16 made me just want to like go harder 26:18 and do more and i realized the benefits 26:21 of like 26:21 having kids that have access to art and 26:24 like 26:25 it just enriches their growth 26:28 so much and it's like really important 26:31 in our house like they're always drawing 26:32 they're always 26:33 doing something artistic um so yeah i 26:36 think more than anything else 26:38 they motivated me and i probably 26:40 wouldn't be doing anything that i'm 26:41 doing if 26:42 i had not had children so in the 26:45 exhibition um there's a piece that i 26:49 want to share with the team 26:51 um who's on this call today and 26:52 everybody who's on this calls friends so 26:54 i want to put that out there uh you know 26:56 this is cool 26:58 that we're able to have these kinds of 26:59 dialogues okay so 27:01 uh tara this is the piece that you have 27:03 in anthropology of motherhood um 27:06 can you tell us a little bit about 27:07 what's going on in deities 27:10 yeah so um i think mothering and 27:14 especially like with black motherhood 27:16 like we function as creators and what 27:20 we're creating 27:20 is divine and like my children are 27:23 divine and i felt more connected to my 27:25 womanhood like 27:26 once i became a mother um 27:29 and i wanted to like convey that through 27:31 a piece and i also wanted to make work 27:33 with my babies because like 27:35 they knew i was an artist but they 27:36 didn't really understand what it meant 27:38 weren't really interested in any of the 27:40 work i had done previously 27:41 had even told me like mom we do not care 27:44 about this 27:45 um i had this idea of like sort of a 27:50 a photo that i wanted to stage and the 27:52 day we took it 27:53 my sister and i were like struggling 27:55 trying to use this camera 27:57 the girls were like not in the mood like 28:00 i feel like the way it's staged like 28:02 maddie looks restful and serious but at 28:04 that point she was really just fed up 28:06 because they had been posing for this 28:07 photo for so long and in 28:09 so many ways um but they were troopers 28:13 um and eventually we got it's done and i 28:16 loved how it turned out 28:18 i loved the connection to them like 28:21 through making work with them um and all 28:24 together it was 28:25 a beautiful experience and i appreciate 28:28 them 28:28 for dealing with it 28:31 so this is uh neon on the left in the 28:35 yellow 28:36 yeah and lottie on the right in the 28:38 green maddie is holding 28:40 a peacock feather i think neon is as 28:43 well 28:44 yeah the bouquet of yellow flowers on 28:46 the center of a black table and right 28:48 above is a clock 28:50 an all-white clock uh tara is standing 28:53 to the right of maddie 28:55 with a white blouse and a black skirt on 28:57 with their arms crossed but 28:59 one arm holding an orange uh her eyes 29:02 are closed and behind her is a cabinet 29:05 that has a plant hanging off the edge of 29:07 it tara can you tell us about all this 29:09 symbolism that's involved in this 29:11 photograph 29:12 um so i share a sign with 29:15 hera the goddess of motherhood 29:17 infertility and i have um 29:19 a sleeve piece that's actually hair 29:21 depicted with the pomegranate and 29:24 the peacock feathers and hair represents 29:26 motherhood and fertility 29:27 and i got this piece started and shortly 29:30 after i got started i became pregnant 29:31 with neon 29:32 so i was like wow this was like a really 29:35 interesting turn of events cause like 29:37 neon wasn't planned for but it felt as 29:39 though there was some meaning behind 29:41 that 29:43 and i wanted to do something that 29:46 represented imagery of ocean who also 29:49 represents 29:50 fertility and beauty and motherhood and 29:52 african culture um 29:54 so the yellow and the green represent 29:57 ocean 29:57 um the peacock feathers for hera and the 30:01 orange for 30:01 ocean also and also represents like an 30:04 offering that i'm giving to my girls 30:08 i know jessica and i spoke earlier about 30:10 how like children are autonomous people 30:14 and i think to fill them up i have to 30:16 continue to give to them and i have to 30:17 continue 30:18 to offer to them so yeah that was where 30:22 a lot of that symbolism 30:24 came from and then the clock was really 30:26 fitting i thought about not including 30:28 the clock 30:29 but um the concept of time especially 30:31 being like a temporary thing 30:33 i think it's important to know like we 30:35 always talk about death because the 30:37 girls are just like we don't ever want 30:38 to die we don't want you to die but 30:40 that's very much a part of life that i 30:43 have prepared them for 30:44 and they know like you know i want to be 30:46 cremated and all that so like 30:48 we we talk about a lot and we do like 30:51 cemetery visits because i don't ever 30:52 want it to be something that they're 30:54 afraid of and i don't want them to like 30:57 think of it as like the scary thing and 30:59 i tell them like 31:00 you know when i'm gone i'll just be 31:02 asleep like dreaming about 31:04 you um i think that was our last time 31:07 kicking it in quarantine is we had a 31:08 cemetery taken yeah 31:11 and max was not having it that day oh i 31:13 felt so bad 31:16 we were going through the cemetery and 31:17 my baby was screaming like how she is 31:19 now 31:20 was shocking she was not having it and 31:24 it was so precious because neon and 31:26 maddie were both like 31:27 trying to con you know like just how can 31:29 we support trying to console her 31:31 like they were both taking turns like 31:33 trying to hold her and calm down max i 31:35 don't know 31:35 i think it was like a teething situation 31:38 i don't know she 31:39 actually was teething we found out after 31:41 and i felt so much better 31:43 it was not you it was not the girl she 31:46 was just 31:47 you know growing those those two fronts 31:51 in a way that she just needed you know 31:53 to to express herself 31:55 vocally 31:58 here she is um 32:02 yeah i know she just wants to be a part 32:04 of it thank you for sharing 32:05 this this piece tara i appreciate it and 32:08 you know i want you know 32:10 big energy little body right okay um 32:13 i also want to talk you know in this 32:15 piece you reference 32:17 uh uh mother goddesses 32:20 um and supreme beings and uh 32:24 we are both a part of uh civil shrine 32:28 um simple shrine is an artist's 32:32 residency program um that's here in 32:34 pittsburgh 32:36 that was started by artist alicia 32:38 wormsley 32:39 that specifically supports uh black 32:43 uh creative mothers um and 32:46 it is amazing to have the opera 32:50 work with alicia um and naomi 32:53 chambers on on this type of work but 32:56 also to be able to support 32:58 uh black creative mothers like tara 33:01 and olivia who were on this call 33:04 um tara tell me about civil shrine how 33:08 do you feel about this 33:09 i've loved the experience i know for a 33:11 lot of the weekly calls i wasn't able to 33:14 be as 33:14 present as like i wanted to be um 33:17 but to be a part of a cohort of like 33:20 very supportive women 33:22 like it was nothing but love and support 33:24 on all of those calls 33:26 um it was a really beautiful experience 33:28 it definitely made me feel as though i'm 33:30 not alone as far as 33:32 trying to balance being an artist and 33:34 being a mother 33:35 um it's great to have this network of 33:38 people that 33:39 you know we can all stay in contact we 33:42 all are like very supportive of one 33:44 another um so it's been an amazing 33:45 experience and i'm grateful 33:47 for the work that alicia and jessica and 33:49 naomi have done 33:50 um naomi i wish she was here but naomi 33:53 like 33:53 i've we've been together on each other 33:56 there's like mothering 33:57 journeys like i remember i was one of 33:58 the first people to find out that naomi 34:00 was pregnant both times 34:02 i knew before anyone else and it 34:04 happened again with her second baby 34:06 but yeah watching her become a mother 34:08 has been a beautiful experience and 34:10 seeing how she balances mothering and 34:13 being an artist 34:14 it's just great like i'm very grateful 34:16 for civil shrine 34:18 and what it provides for black mommies 34:21 so we did 34:22 uh honorariums for just being a part of 34:24 the group 34:25 like if you uh are a part of civil 34:28 shrine here's a check immediately 34:30 and in addition to that if you led a 34:33 workshop or a class 34:35 through our virtual programming you were 34:37 also 34:38 supported with it with another check and 34:41 i think a huge part 34:43 of the residency is not only to provide 34:45 this community 34:47 especially during quarantine time but 34:50 also 34:51 what are ways that we can economically 34:53 support each other i think something 34:54 that i learned 34:55 through is that every black mom who is a 34:58 part of civil shrine has some kind of 34:59 business 35:00 or sell something you know it like we we 35:03 created this whole ecosystem in a way 35:05 that i just really didn't know 35:07 i mean i knew but i didn't know it 35:08 existed to this scale you know and 35:11 and being able to support each other and 35:13 kind of keeping that 35:14 that money um within our community 35:18 was just really a beautiful thing olivia 35:20 i know you're on the call 35:22 um olivia had a baby uh 35:25 during our cohort which was amazing like 35:27 we got to see her pregnant 35:29 and then we got to see the baby being 35:31 born not being born but you know like 35:33 the resulting baby baby olivia there's 35:36 the baby 35:38 olivia can i ask you to say some stuff 35:40 about civil shrine 35:42 yeah i actually remember i went and like 35:44 went into like labor 35:45 during our like a sunday meeting and i 35:47 was like um 35:48 i'm gonna turn off my camera guys no it 35:51 was um 35:52 this is nalo it is so 35:55 beautiful um i think just like 35:58 understanding 36:00 and seeing how like deep and wide 36:02 mothering is and can be 36:03 and like just holding space for each 36:05 other week over week expression this 36:07 time was so beautiful and 36:09 yeah i just i think there's something 36:11 very sacred about 36:12 creating and holding that space um and 36:15 letting 36:17 like there wasn't how to explain this 36:19 like time 36:21 was flexible which was really nice and 36:23 like there's so much 36:24 understanding and grace and graciousness 36:27 um 36:28 yeah just like meeting meeting each 36:30 other where we're at and hearing each 36:31 other out and creating 36:32 beautiful space and i don't know i'm 36:34 really grateful for that i feel like i 36:36 came into my motherhood because you all 36:38 were there yeah 36:40 i don't know i i agree 100 36:43 olivia it was such a beautiful thing to 36:45 be able to say 36:47 hey don't cry look what does it matter 36:54 don't cry look at all your friends who 36:56 are here 36:57 [Music] 37:01 i'm gonna go on mute for a second tara 37:03 help me out 37:07 oh poor baby 37:12 so um hello everyone i'm fran flaherty i 37:15 know i'm just gonna 37:16 kind of take a step back here um but 37:19 this is 37:19 um that that sound is beautiful of the 37:23 child crying 37:24 um and um with with jessica this is 37:27 exactly 37:28 what i was hoping um anthropology of 37:32 motherhood would be 37:34 that we could all be together with our 37:37 children 37:38 in whatever state they are just take 37:40 them as 37:41 who they are when they are at the moment 37:44 and it's okay 37:45 and then we can all be still be here and 37:47 still hold space for everyone 37:49 so um hi max i hope max is uh 37:53 okay now so i'm just going to mute 37:55 myself again 37:57 y'all fran was when i was at tmu with 38:00 olga 38:01 uh fran and i became really close 38:04 because 38:04 i was studying painting drawing and 38:06 printmaking 38:07 and she managed the printmaking studio 38:11 and i spent a lot of time in there and 38:13 i'm really grateful for 38:15 her her support um but also her 38:18 friendship and so to be able to be 38:20 uh included in this project that fran 38:24 has put together 38:25 i'm i feel deeply honored um and then to 38:28 be able to be 38:30 exhibiting work alongside so many 38:32 artists that i really appreciate and 38:34 admire i also 38:36 am uh immensely grateful so thank you 38:39 amy and fran 38:40 um for creating space for us to to do 38:43 these 38:43 these types of things and show this type 38:45 of work 38:49 yeah thank you so much i created that 38:50 piece specifically for this show 38:52 and i was like really hoping i was like 38:54 i hope they like it because i had this 38:56 idea and i was like 38:57 i didn't know when i would ever be able 38:59 to exhibit it 39:00 and then i saw anthropology motherhood 39:02 like the open call on facebook i was 39:04 like there is no way 39:05 like this show is so perfect and like 39:09 it was in alignment with this idea that 39:11 i had it was like amazing time and it 39:12 was very serendipitous 39:15 uh okay one of the things that i also 39:17 want to talk about 39:18 kind of shifting gears is how fine you 39:20 are tara 39:25 we're like we've always been hanging 39:26 there during quarantine you know 39:29 terry you're a milf 39:33 thank you as are you i'm a reflection of 39:35 you i'll never forget the first time you 39:37 said that to me 39:39 have i said this before that that's why 39:41 i always said it 39:44 i thought you knew i like got it from 39:46 you but it's such a beautiful 39:47 compliment and it like touches people so 39:50 much like i had this random girl damn me 39:52 on instagram and she's like i think 39:53 you're so dope i love seeing your post 39:55 i was like i'm a reflection of you she's 39:57 like i'm over here crying i was like oh 39:59 no i'm gonna cry 40:01 it's like such a beautiful way to just 40:03 like 40:04 mirror feelings it's true it's true okay 40:07 so 40:08 you have you know i was kind of touching 40:10 on this high and low thing from before 40:12 because you have this like really 40:14 incredible 40:15 uh fine art practice but you're also 40:18 selfie god on instagram you know i like 40:20 um 40:21 i i am prepared right now with my um 40:26 with my uh screen share to show 40:29 some of these or actually let me let me 40:32 stop 40:32 sharing real quick so i can get this 40:34 right but tara like these 40:36 these works of yours that are on here we 40:38 go that are on instagram look check this 40:40 out 40:41 tara like you need to have an exhibition 40:45 um that is look you too sexy 40:48 that is 40:52 all of these stuff i mean and the way 40:54 that you use 40:55 this platform to share your life to 40:59 share 40:59 your experience with motherhood to share 41:03 um your your body like your grace 41:06 uh your art is just like look how do we 41:09 go 41:10 how do we go from this damn 41:13 uh to this like such a sweet moment you 41:17 know like it is such a um 41:20 a spectrum and i think you know uh 41:23 blackness and black women uh are you 41:26 know here's a 41:27 a piece alluding to your future 41:29 exhibition at brew house that you were 41:30 just describing you know 41:32 um you giving lectures at cmoa while 41:35 you're also 41:36 uh repping sneakers as social status you 41:38 know like this 41:39 is such a reflection of the diversity 41:43 that exists within black women and black 41:45 womenhood 41:46 that i feel like this you know this is 41:48 art this is 41:50 i'm i'm proud to be able to witness 41:53 uh this this yeah look here's the 41:56 another version of the of the piece 41:59 that's in 42:00 the exhibition um talk to me about 42:04 your social media presence um 42:07 i've struggled in the past with social 42:09 media because there's this idea that 42:11 like 42:12 especially women you have to represent 42:14 yourself a certain way if you're going 42:15 to be taken seriously 42:17 or like your social media has to be 42:19 super curated 42:20 and there's no way i could ever curate 42:23 mine the way other people have because i 42:24 have 42:25 tons and tons and tons of images 42:28 and that's because like and i've i've 42:30 gone through all of my images and like 42:32 every post is a memory like 42:34 i have pictures of when my oldest 42:36 daughter was an infant 42:37 like i have pictures of like trips from 42:39 10 years ago 42:40 um my whole pregnancy with neon i 42:43 documented 42:44 and these are images that like i will 42:46 never care enough about curating my feed 42:48 to like get rid of any of those pictures 42:49 because they all mean something to me 42:51 and they all evoke a memory 42:53 and i don't think black women should 42:54 have to curate our social media i think 42:56 our social media should represent 42:58 exactly who we are and i've met so many 43:01 dope black women that will dm me and be 43:03 like oh you like anime i love anime i'm 43:05 like girl i had no idea you need to be 43:06 posting about your anime you know like 43:08 but i feel like women feel pressure to 43:10 have to represent ourselves 43:12 a certain way as i know and like not 43:14 every picture i post 43:15 i think is the most flattering but i 43:17 mean i post things because 43:20 sharing my life is really important and 43:22 um 43:23 especially like my struggles with mental 43:25 health like some of those posts were 43:27 really difficult to make but the 43:28 responses i got 43:29 and the ways i was able to like give 43:32 people advice 43:32 like i'm i'm very very grateful that i 43:35 was able to do that 43:36 um and that me being you know open and 43:39 candid which i don't think is 43:41 particularly brave i think that 43:43 there are certain stigmas attached to 43:44 mental health that make people hesitant 43:46 to share and there shouldn't be 43:48 you know like if you broke your leg you 43:50 wouldn't be ashamed to post like oh i 43:52 broke my leg 43:52 so you shouldn't be ashamed to post that 43:54 like you're struggling with your mental 43:56 health it all 43:57 ties in like we need to regard our minds 43:59 the same way we regard our bodies 44:01 um but yeah i have no shame in shame 44:04 things like that and if i'm able to like 44:06 help others through posts like that 44:08 then like i'm all for it i really 44:11 appreciate that and i think that 44:13 openness yeah right like that that 44:15 openness that willing to express 44:16 yourself that's so 44:17 important because so much we're so often 44:20 we are silenced or reprimanded for being 44:23 ourselves and i feel like you 44:24 authentically 44:25 show up as yourself all the time and i'm 44:28 so grateful for that so thank you for 44:30 just being yourself tara 44:31 thank you yeah of course okay so we also 44:34 talked a little bit about um 44:36 neon and maddie and y'all heard max um 44:39 i wanna i wanna talk a little bit about 44:41 how 44:43 what it means to involve our kids in our 44:45 work um you know 44:46 for example in that photograph that you 44:48 showed maddie and neon are in it 44:50 um maddie and neon are present 44:53 throughout your social media presence 44:55 and i wonder um with having you know 44:59 i've taken this stance um conversely 45:03 where you would max is not present in my 45:05 internet at all she never shows up 45:08 um i highlight her via 45:11 the um lioness collective which olga is 45:15 the founder of 45:16 or through civil shrine um but i i 45:20 i do not show her face um or 45:23 um really speak about her because i i 45:26 feel like i want to be able to give her 45:28 autonomy when she gets older to decide 45:30 how she's reflected in this world 45:32 and i and i think so much you know like 45:34 as kids 45:35 kind of grow up uh and and then see 45:38 what has been out there you know they 45:40 might not have as much control 45:41 and so i wonder how you because your 45:43 kids are older you know max is 13 months 45:46 maddie's 10. i wonder how you kind of 45:48 navigate this world 45:49 of um showing your kids and 45:53 and not showing your kids like how do 45:54 you draw where do you draw the line on 45:56 that what do you think 45:58 um with maddie my pregnancy was a lot 46:01 different so i didn't really 46:02 show that much i think like people i met 46:05 in person were like surprised that i was 46:06 pregnant 46:07 so there was like a little more privacy 46:09 around that time 46:11 um but with neon i was in such a like 46:15 happy 46:16 healthy relationship that i was excited 46:19 to share 46:19 everything like share updates the 46:21 further along i got 46:23 um did like a gender reveal all of that 46:26 so it was a much different experience 46:29 um but as they get older and autonomy 46:32 becomes a thing 46:33 i definitely give them more agency over 46:36 their posts like 46:37 my my nine-year-old um she's like 46:40 exploring 46:40 gender identity so at one point she was 46:42 identifying as non-binary 46:44 and then at one point she was 46:45 identifying as lesbian and i used to 46:48 like post our conversations 46:50 and then actually um neon's father was 46:52 kind of like hey is maddie okay with you 46:54 posting this 46:55 and i was like you know what i don't 46:57 know and i had a conversation with 46:58 madison and she was kind of like 47:00 no i don't want people to know so that 47:03 was a thing and like it kind of hurt 47:05 because i love sharing those parts of 47:07 her 47:07 and like having a child that can explore 47:09 her identity 47:10 in that way and understands like that 47:13 gender is a spectrum and just like 47:15 is able to like share these things with 47:17 me like at nine years old it was such a 47:19 beautiful moment that i wanted to share 47:21 but i have to respect her and that was 47:23 hard like sometimes it's harder like 47:25 sometimes i'll like sneak a cute picture 47:27 and i'm like oh i want to post this and 47:28 she's like no and i think she's 47:30 influenced my youngest because like the 47:32 other day on my instagram stories 47:34 i posted my youngest sleeping and like i 47:37 showed a turn she's like you're not 47:38 supposed to post me on instagram i'm mad 47:40 at you 47:41 and i was like oh man so just being more 47:44 intentional 47:45 about knowing what they're comfortable 47:47 with 47:48 asking permission to share things asking 47:51 permission to like tell 47:52 other people things about them um 47:56 but also like the with maddie in 47:57 particular like i wanted her to know 47:59 that she wasn't alone and there are a 48:01 lot of other kids her age exploring 48:03 gender identity 48:05 um but i mean i think i think she has a 48:07 good group of friends and she's like 48:09 in a bunch of queer gamer groups through 48:11 like roblox and stuff so 48:13 she has a little community and i think 48:15 she's doing okay and like 48:16 i'm probably more worried than i should 48:18 be and i need to just like 48:20 let her have her space and kind of keep 48:22 that separate from social media as much 48:24 as possible 48:24 especially now because this was 48:26 something relatively recent i think like 48:28 during kovid she kind of cracked on and 48:30 was like listen i don't want you posting 48:32 stuff 48:33 i was like okay i love that i love 48:36 witnessing that 48:37 and i think it's such a model um that i 48:39 really hope to emulate for max 48:41 we were talking uh before the phone call 48:44 so 48:45 max max's dad is jewish and we just had 48:49 a naming ceremony which is like a 48:51 traditional 48:52 um jewish celebration where the child is 48:55 given a hebrew name 48:56 in case she wants to have like a bad 48:59 mitzvah or do any kind of other cultural 49:01 celebration 49:02 so max is little uzi um and 49:05 when we were celebrating i'm confused 49:12 kenneth did you ask a question 49:15 oh he muted again okay so maybe not um 49:18 but you're welcome 49:19 i'm sorry i i was trying to put it in 49:21 the chat but i'm 49:22 completely did not unders um stand the 49:25 um 49:25 invitation i got i thought this was 49:27 about um black mothers 49:29 i didn't real i thought this was gonna 49:31 be more like this um 49:33 information about african-american 49:34 families i didn't know it was gonna be 49:36 like interracial and gay so i completely 49:38 got the wrong um someone must have if he 49:41 obviously did 49:42 not know me to send me this so i'm going 49:44 to leave um 49:47 sorry no worries you know we believe in 49:49 inner sexual 49:50 sexuality um and we're grateful for your 49:53 participation today but please don't 49:54 feel like you have to 49:55 to stay i think what should happen 49:58 though because i 49:59 as a as a real african-american i just 50:02 i'm tired of our community to be 50:04 hijacked by these different um 50:06 ideologies that don't reflect us like 50:09 the last 50:09 20 years what i'm seeing is that 50:11 everyone's using 50:12 our words and they're interjecting their 50:15 own agendas 50:16 because i'm gonna tell you right now if 50:17 you go to africa what you're saying 50:19 is nothing i've heard from legit people 50:22 who share our values 50:24 but i think you just need to come up 50:25 with some new words so people don't 50:27 misinterpret who 50:28 your group is and things that you guys 50:30 believe with traditional african 50:32 american families 50:33 thank you so much kenneth i'm apologize 50:35 for the uh 50:36 miscommunication there with you and we 50:39 will yes 50:40 jessica cut him out it's cool 50:46 i was really quick to just click click 50:48 remove for that because this is not a 50:50 space for that 50:50 you know yeah oh lord 50:55 bye tara let's talk about it 50:58 because we got 30 minutes to wrap this 50:59 up i mean you know 51:01 you are a person of um 51:04 multiple uh races uh 51:08 we both have children that are of 51:11 different 51:12 races than we are let's talk too bad 51:15 kenneth isn't here so he could feel his 51:16 speech 51:17 no no tap for me i couldn't handle it i 51:19 had to just remove remove or move yeah 51:22 yeah 51:22 yeah yeah but like let's talk about tara 51:25 what is it like 51:26 raising an interracial child in today's 51:28 world can we not 51:29 tj thank you 51:34 um it's it's been an experience 51:38 and through maddie sort of exploring her 51:41 identity 51:42 i've been able to like unpack my own and 51:45 we have a lot of really difficult 51:47 conversations about privilege 51:49 like me being half white and like my 51:51 proximity to whiteness 51:53 it's a thing that i have to acknowledge 51:55 and be accountable for 51:56 and the ways in which you know i take up 51:58 space that's a thing 52:00 but it really helps me to explain things 52:02 to her 52:04 by putting myself in the narrative so 52:05 that she knows that i'm not that she's 52:07 not alone 52:08 um so that helps her understand things a 52:10 lot better because i mean 52:12 the way it is if you're white passing 52:14 then you're white so like i have had to 52:16 reconcile with the idea that like 52:18 i do in fact have a white child who may 52:20 choose to identify 52:21 differently but it is what it is and i 52:24 actually did explore that through an art 52:26 piece 52:26 because i remember when halle berry had 52:28 her daughter she talked about how she 52:31 applies to the one drop rule and she's 52:33 like one drop of black and you're black 52:35 and that's it 52:36 but like we have to talk about the ways 52:38 in which the one drop rule was very 52:40 problematic and it was a way to 52:42 keep enslaved people from having any 52:45 rights 52:45 even you know when they became free like 52:47 that's that's a big problem 52:49 so i did a piece exploring the one drop 52:51 theory and i used blood and milk 52:53 and we dipped the blood in the milk to 52:56 see like 52:57 how much blood it would take to start to 52:58 dilute the whiteness 53:00 um and yeah so just just being able to 53:03 do things like that 53:04 through you know having like ultimately 53:06 a white child 53:08 it's been a thing and then um in 53:10 contrast 53:11 my youngest daughter her father is black 53:13 and nene is 53:14 she looks black um she's only a quarter 53:16 white whereas maddie is only a quarter 53:18 black so 53:20 it's been a lot of moments where like we 53:22 have to teach maddie like 53:23 your job is going to be your sister's 53:25 protector because people are going to 53:26 treat her differently which she doesn't 53:28 understand she's like why neon's so cute 53:31 and they both want hair like each other 53:32 and nene's like i want to fro 53:35 and then he's like i want my hair to be 53:36 straight i'm like no you guys have to be 53:38 happy with how you look but um yeah it's 53:42 it's been interesting and i think maddie 53:46 just has to 53:46 be intentional what she will learn over 53:48 time and position 53:50 herself as an ally and an advocate and 53:52 also somebody that doesn't take up too 53:54 much space but 53:55 she's already such a great kid i think 53:57 she will get there 53:58 she just struggles with you know she 54:00 wants to look black and the way she 54:02 talks about darker skinned people 54:04 is beautiful like we were watching 54:06 something and she's like 54:07 dark-skinned people are just like so 54:09 beautiful like their skin just glows and 54:12 she's like 54:13 it's not fair that i don't look like 54:14 that and i'm like well maddie you have 54:16 to be okay with how you look 54:18 and yes like speak that loudly about 54:20 like how beautiful dark skinned people 54:22 are and like 54:23 you know how that needs to be 54:24 acknowledged and um 54:26 i don't know it's hard and like i feel 54:28 for her because like i know 54:30 she wants to look and identify one way 54:32 and how she looks to the exact opposite 54:34 but she also needs to like love herself 54:36 and just 54:37 move in the right way truly you know i 54:41 identity discussions are so hard 54:42 especially with young people 54:45 and i i really appreciate how like 54:47 watching you 54:48 navigate these discussions with your 54:50 children especially because 54:52 they look suited you know and and i'm 54:54 sure that there are moments where you 54:55 really want to find ways to uplift mimi 54:58 um but you have to balance that without 55:00 lifting maddie you know and 55:02 and it seems to be like such um it could 55:06 be really treacherous waters 55:08 and so i'm really grateful in witnessing 55:10 how you approach these things 55:12 kenneth is not alone you know i think a 55:15 lot of people are 55:16 mad they're they mad 55:19 they're mad about like gender identity 55:21 too and it's like black people are a 55:23 monolith 55:24 like there were gays in africa like come 55:27 on 55:28 and also what like i think a lot about 55:32 discussions of race is how you choose to 55:35 identify 55:36 and how people perceive you um you know 55:38 like i got an asian dad 55:40 am i any less black no i don't i don't 55:43 think that that cheat you know i 55:45 move through the world as a black woman 55:48 that's how you know this is how i move 55:50 and i'm gonna raise 55:51 my daughter to move in a very similar 55:53 way you know like uh 55:54 her grandma on the paternal side 55:58 came to the house before she was born 55:59 and she was like i've got all these 56:01 porcelain dolls 56:02 and i wanted you know they came from my 56:03 great great grandmother 56:05 and i'm so excited to pass them down to 56:07 max who's their only 56:09 grandchild you know my mom's got six 56:10 grandkids she don't give a about 56:12 max 56:14 but they're so excited you know and so i 56:16 was like okay and i'm looking through 56:17 all these porcelain dolls and they're 56:18 all 56:19 blonde and blue eyes and then there was 56:21 one asian one with like 56:22 a kimono and a fan wearing 56:26 uh you know wooden slippers and i was 56:27 like oh thank you 56:29 um you know like thank you for 56:32 all express gratitude um but also maybe 56:35 we should get her some like black dolls 56:37 and some jewish dolls 56:38 you know because this is a part of her 56:40 too and i'm like uh 56:42 interested in uh demonstrating this part 56:45 of her culture 56:46 and his mom was like and what did jewish 56:48 dolls look like and i was like i don't 56:49 know maybe it has a 56:50 anamika on it and she's like not all 56:53 jewish people wear yamakas and i'm like 56:55 not all asians wear kimonos like what 56:57 are we talking about 56:58 right now you know like what what are we 57:00 even really talking about right now and 57:01 so i think 57:03 um if this conversation 57:06 finds itself uh in our lives 57:10 in in multiple perspectives you know and 57:13 it's always just going to be something 57:14 that we have to 57:16 have to deal with and move through even 57:17 now you know like there's 57:19 it's ignorance which i acknowledge but 57:22 there's comments about like 57:24 her her lack of melanin you know 57:27 um like oh well she's not really black 57:29 because she's light-skinned it's like 57:30 what 57:32 you know and so you have to navigate 57:34 this through 57:35 people who don't know you as well as 57:36 people who do know you like these are my 57:38 partner's parents you know 57:40 um and so i'm grateful that that kenneth 57:44 introduced this is a part of our 57:45 discussion because i think it's relevant 57:48 and something that we could uh use this 57:50 as an opportunity to share but i don't 57:51 think that 57:52 in any way we should let that hotep-ness 57:54 um bring us down and so 57:56 in these next sounded like a hotel girl 58:01 um in these next 30 minutes amy is in 58:04 the gallery which is 58:05 which is unique you know we haven't uh 58:08 had it 58:09 we don't get to go there um because of 58:11 coven in the way that we can 58:12 and so um amy has the ability to 58:16 show our works um up close so amy do you 58:20 would you mind um showing tara's piece 58:23 in this space and then showing the piece 58:24 that i piece 58:27 um i would love to hold on 58:33 she's she's working on tech right now 58:35 pretty much too much tech 58:36 um okay um yes i don't know where to 58:40 look or what audio 58:41 um yeah give me a second to uh get kind 58:44 of get situated 58:45 and then i'll uh i guess i don't know if 58:48 i can screen share 58:49 sarah you might have to make me make my 58:51 phone co-host because 58:52 i'm on here double time um so 58:56 give me one second keep vamping yes and 58:59 tara in the interim uh kate is here 59:03 with baby veda they just popped up on 59:05 the screen hey kate hey veda look at 59:07 this cutie she's also interracial 59:10 kang do you hey sorry we've been hiding 59:13 the whole time 59:15 that guy was funny experience 59:19 what advice i can't hear what'd you say 59:22 tell us about your inner rate what is 59:24 your experience like raising an 59:25 interracial baby in these worlds well 59:28 well we've been home for most of it 59:34 so 59:38 i can't hear anything 59:42 it's okay i think it's just a challenge 59:44 right to like navigate these things 59:46 um but i'm grateful for you being here 59:48 kate and thank you for sharing your baby 59:50 yes in the interim 59:53 things set up um 59:57 all right amy you ready to take over oh 60:00 yes okay can you guys do that 60:02 [Music] 60:03 all right 60:09 all right so here is tara's work 60:14 in the gallery space and i'm sorry i 60:17 didn't have a chance to chime in 60:18 when we were talking about this work i 60:20 had um the 60:21 carlo's a ghost town right now but um 60:24 there was 60:25 somebody who was here that was informing 60:26 me of some good news about a donation 60:28 that might go towards another 60:30 student-run art space in the at carlow 60:34 which is fantastic but 60:35 i just wanted to say that tara's work i 60:38 remember 60:39 when we were going through the 60:40 submissions uh fran and i 60:43 and tara's work in particular 60:47 stuck out to me um for all of the 60:49 reasons i think that jess 60:51 and tara discussed which was this and 60:53 and just said this at the beginning of 60:55 the talk is the way in which tara 60:57 activates high low 60:59 um i think is is really um 61:02 uh compelling and the ways in which 61:05 there we have this like contemporary 61:07 allegory and there's like 61:08 big ideas going on here but it's also 61:11 super 61:11 intimate and super tied into 61:15 the now and and lived experience uh with 61:18 again all of these sort of mythological 61:20 illusions 61:22 um i think also uh and then and then 61:24 there's also 61:25 like a lot of playing with art his art 61:27 history 61:28 and and the symbolism and the 61:29 persistence of certain 61:31 narratives and myths and ideas that 61:34 um that come from you know kind of 61:38 greek uh mythology but then also uh you 61:41 know 61:42 because there's so so much sort of 61:43 syncretic overlap between different 61:45 cultures and ancient 61:47 religions um that that it really i think 61:50 presents a really complex rich text of 61:52 an image 61:53 um that tara is presenting here and i 61:56 also have a question 61:57 for tara and jess if it's okay because i 61:59 was um really 62:01 interested this is like from a curator's 62:03 perspective 62:04 um when you're talking about the 62:06 different spaces 62:07 that you're showing works and you're 62:09 curating um 62:11 from the um and i had my little paper 62:14 that had all the places but brew house 62:16 the space in charlotte and then 62:20 uh the um uh 62:23 what's the name of the shoe space 62:28 so yeah social scene um what i 62:31 i wanted to ask you about that because 62:33 all of these spaces and the way that you 62:34 talked about them 62:35 as not just being spaces for art right 62:38 like this gallery 62:39 but a space spaces that cultivate 62:42 community 62:43 and support it have all of these 62:45 different really multivalent 62:47 like uh functions uh that are very 62:50 intentional 62:51 and i was wondering if you could sort of 62:52 uh and right off the bat you listed like 62:55 three of these types of spaces 62:57 and i was wondering if you could maybe 62:58 talk speak to that a little bit 63:00 and and perhaps it's significance too 63:03 um for black communities and and uh 63:07 art communities as well 63:14 i mean i don't want to speak for jessica 63:16 but i think both of us 63:17 are all about access access is really 63:20 important to me 63:22 and um people who ordinarily like 63:25 wouldn't go to art museums can't afford 63:27 to go to art museums 63:28 wouldn't go to a gallery like they still 63:30 deserve to see nice things they deserve 63:33 to have access 63:34 to beautiful things um they deserve to 63:37 regard art as something that like you 63:39 can make a career out of and i know so 63:41 many of us the way we were brought up 63:44 it was like to not pursue things like 63:46 art like we needed to 63:47 you know go to college find real jobs 63:49 and like i don't believe in that 63:51 um so yeah especially like through the 63:54 shows that i carry i want them 63:56 all to be accessible i want to like 63:59 write in ways that 64:00 people can understand um i don't want to 64:02 be like 64:03 too academic and i think jessica 64:06 functions in the same way and i really 64:08 relate to her in that regard like 64:10 regardless of how all of her accolades 64:12 like all of her schooling she's never 64:14 positioned herself as a person that's 64:16 inaccessible or as a person 64:18 like can't speak to the culture like she 64:20 is the culture 64:21 she's creating the culture um so yeah i 64:24 think we're both very intentional about 64:26 that 64:26 definitely and to tara's point about 64:28 creating i think 64:30 so much of my work and and tara's i feel 64:33 like i can say this is about 64:35 um if you know what does it mean to 64:38 think about um 64:42 decolonizing colonist spaces 64:46 museums aren't for us you know like 64:48 these there are so many spaces that have 64:50 never been welcoming to us have never 64:52 made space for us so it kind of seems 64:54 at some point just like inherently 64:56 pointless 64:57 um to think about trying to make spaces 65:00 that have never been for us 65:02 for us instead i think the move is how 65:05 can we make our own spaces you know like 65:07 buy 65:08 us for us what does it mean to think 65:10 about 65:11 um creating something for black artists 65:14 that is 65:14 made entirely by black artists i really 65:17 believe that and so i try to 65:20 really creates spaces that uplift 65:23 support 65:24 and uh really acknowledge black people 65:27 who are already doing this work you know 65:28 it's not 65:29 it's not even about necessarily 65:31 inserting black people into museums 65:34 i think we make our own museums you know 65:36 i think we we provide our own 65:37 collections i think we 65:39 we provide platforms and structures that 65:41 are just for us and that's 65:42 you know the work of the roll-up um the 65:45 project in charlotte that's the work of 65:47 civil shrine 65:48 here in pittsburgh i think as many ways 65:51 as that 65:51 as we can provide uh our own 65:55 spaces tara mentioned that show in 65:58 in denison um uh ohio 66:02 which was at a university tara can you 66:04 talk a little bit about that show 66:05 while i pulled this up i want to show 66:07 the image from that show 66:08 um yeah i was i co-carried the show 66:12 with um justin clemson 66:15 who i knew back when he was still living 66:17 in pittsburgh and he went on to teach at 66:18 denison university and like 66:20 we always kept in touch and he's like i 66:22 have this idea 66:23 for a show um i would love for you to 66:25 work with me to curate it 66:27 and like from jump he was like i want 66:29 this to be like a very black 66:30 show like we we are creating and 66:32 cultivating a black space 66:35 and granville ohio where denison is it's 66:37 it's very white 66:38 like very kind of republican um so being 66:41 there and like seeing the space it was 66:43 kind of daunting it was like are people 66:45 going to come to this are we like 66:46 okay to do this here um but yeah that's 66:49 how that came about 66:50 and we had a lot of like really 66:52 incredible artists 66:54 um alicia wormsley was a part of the 66:55 show so was jessica 66:57 i was able to like bring in some 66:58 pittsburgh artists um 67:00 so that was great uh corinne jasmine 67:03 um i think that was it as far 67:08 as pittsburgh artists um but yeah to be 67:11 able to like 67:12 connect with artists who were like very 67:15 emerging and 67:16 showing them next to more established 67:17 artists like alicia 67:19 um sharon norwood um 67:23 i'm trying to remember yes 67:26 luis vasquez laroche he was a vcu mfa 67:30 student who has since moved back to 67:32 trinidad but he 67:33 is making really compelling performance 67:36 and conceptual work 67:37 around um his caribbean and black 67:39 identity 67:41 really nuanced work i was i was so 67:43 grateful to connect with him 67:44 and all the other artists it was a 67:45 really stellar show and i was like this 67:48 is how all 67:48 shows you know should be i created this 67:52 space where 67:52 i had i asked tara to send me the floor 67:54 plans of the exhibition 67:56 and i carved out a space based on the 67:58 floor plans that was specifically 67:59 uh deemed a black autonomous space the 68:02 ask was that 68:04 non-black people actually installed the 68:06 work but it was um 68:08 with within this school of thought where 68:10 there was a series of directions that 68:13 were provided of how to install the work 68:15 all of the materials were provided um it 68:18 explained 68:19 exactly where to install the work in the 68:21 space 68:22 and my curiosity is how people 68:25 would respect this space that was deemed 68:28 black only you know especially upon 68:30 openings or exhibitions when there 68:32 uh is quite a lot of people in the space 68:34 when you see something that is 68:35 specifically deemed not for you 68:38 um is it an opportunity for you to 68:40 respect that 68:41 or is an instance where you feel like 68:43 who's watching me and maybe i put my 68:45 foot in the water a little bit 68:47 and so that's very similar to this work 68:49 that amy is showing right now 68:51 um that's a part of the anthropology of 68:54 motherhood exhibition 68:56 this is a sewing chair um 68:59 because when max was first born i was 69:02 spending a lot of time sewing and i 69:06 made this sculpture that was uh 69:08 exhibited in a previous exhibition where 69:10 i turned her drawings into soft 69:12 sculptures 69:13 and so uh when i was no longer nursing 69:16 as much as i was 69:18 and had the ability to to use my hands 69:20 freely 69:21 in a way that i couldn't anymore i 69:23 started thinking you know my practice 69:25 changed significantly and i found myself 69:29 saying things to max when she became a 69:30 little bit more 69:31 autonomous you know like could it be her 69:33 walking through the space and i'd be 69:34 like get your balance 69:36 or uh take your time these things that i 69:38 was saying to her 69:39 uh were things that i needed to hear 69:41 myself 69:42 there were things that i would say them 69:44 and i'd be like yeah just like get you 69:45 know 69:46 get your balance um and so i installed 69:49 this 69:49 uh the chair in the corner of the 69:52 exhibition because i think also a lot of 69:54 about disciplining our children and what 69:56 that means and i spent so much time in 69:58 the corner that was the first thing 70:00 miriam would say to me go sit in the 70:01 corner 70:02 um and so i think a lot about how now 70:05 that almost becomes a privilege right 70:07 like let somebody tell me to go sit in 70:08 the corner for a second i'm like 70:10 yes thank you let me let me take this 70:12 moment to myself to just reflect on 70:15 on what it is and so i i um transcribed 70:19 on the wall get your balance as a way to 70:21 reflect 70:22 on this statement that i kept finally 70:23 finding myself saying 70:25 saying to my daughter and so this piece 70:27 is called uh 70:28 things that i that i say to my daughter 70:30 that i need to remind myself 70:34 and i also invite uh moms who come into 70:37 the gallery to actually 70:39 activate the chair you know i don't to 70:41 tara's point about accessibility i don't 70:43 believe that these things should just be 70:44 on walls that can't be touched 70:46 you know so like sit in the chair take a 70:48 break look out the window take a second 70:50 think about what it 70:51 means to get your balance i really 70:53 encourage that 70:54 um we have uh we have two very 70:58 interesting questions that i think need 71:00 to be answered one of them is from juana 71:02 williams and 71:03 it's for tara and it says i'm curious if 71:06 creating this image with his deities 71:08 within an interior space possibly a 71:11 kitchen which is actually your own 71:13 kitchen and when 71:14 when we were at tech rehearsal today we 71:16 actually saw the space 71:18 um that you created this image and it 71:20 was such a privilege to be able to see 71:23 part of the art i was just like yes 71:25 that's it 71:27 um is intentionally referencing historic 71:31 ideas of womanhood 71:32 or motherhood being domestic or perhaps 71:35 working against 71:37 against those ideas or is it there is a 71:39 different symbolism 71:41 i think it's a really interesting 71:43 question i'd love to hear 71:44 um what you think about that and then 71:46 we'll go to zayna's questions about 71:49 um how 71:52 these all interact with how we deal with 71:55 our families 71:58 um yeah actually i was 72:01 very inspired so one of my favorite 72:03 series of all time is um 72:05 carrie mae weems kitchen table series 72:08 and the way you know it became sort of a 72:11 space for convening 72:13 and that's what i had in mind when i did 72:15 in the kitchen because i had played 72:16 around with the idea of like staging in 72:18 my living room or my bedroom but 72:20 i was really drawn to the kitchen 72:21 because of carrying me weems work and i 72:23 wanted to like 72:24 stage it not a similar way but um to 72:28 reference that work since it's some of 72:30 my favorite 72:30 so yeah that's what i had in mind but i 72:32 think it's important that we do 72:34 acknowledge um 72:35 historic ideas of womanhood and 72:36 mothering because you know 72:39 a lot of black mothers we spend time in 72:40 the kitchen 72:45 it's a beautiful series and each image 72:47 like evokes a different emotion 72:49 and communicates something different 72:52 really really brilliant work 72:55 tara i'd sorry just i do want to add 72:58 that part of the question that from 73:00 juana 73:00 is a you know referencing the historic 73:03 ideas of womanhood or motherhood being 73:05 domestic 73:06 and um whether that's true or not juana 73:10 um if historically you know there's 73:12 there's a book out there by definite 73:14 stephanie coons 73:15 that's entitled then the way we never 73:18 word it references the 1950s 73:20 sort of leave it to beaver june cleaver 73:23 image of the mother 73:24 um whether or not um and we all have 73:28 different opinions whether that's true 73:30 or not 73:30 um the show anthropology of motherhood 73:33 is really centered on 73:37 making if you do choose as a mother 73:41 to be domestic then that choice 73:45 is something to be valued um so 73:49 um 73:49 [Music] 73:52 when we when we saw tara's work amy and 73:54 you can talk about this too and we saw 73:56 terrorists where there was sort of 73:58 this domesticity going on there but 74:00 there was also an 74:01 inherent power in that 74:05 you know perceived domesticity i we 74:07 don't know we can only assume because it 74:09 was in the kitchen 74:10 but we don't really know what that means 74:12 and somehow we sort of relate 74:14 that domesticity to sort of motherhood 74:17 in in a 74:18 less of power and that's exactly what 74:20 we're trying to challenge the motherhood 74:22 and domesticity that is the heart 74:25 of uh families that is the heart 74:28 of becoming powerful people 74:31 so you know well i was gonna 74:34 say fran absolutely and that like i 74:37 think the 74:38 again like the the mix of references uh 74:42 that 74:42 is happening with tara's work um 74:45 because if you you know tara's talking 74:47 about hera as being 74:49 you know this particular figure you know 74:51 hera exists 74:52 in on not olympus uh literally like uh 74:56 on 74:56 you know if there's such thing as an 74:58 ivory tower 74:59 in the clouds that's what mount olympus 75:01 is and so 75:02 to have then that power uh 75:06 that you know a figure uh like hera 75:09 embodies 75:10 then in the space exactly what you're 75:13 saying fran it's not about 75:15 denying domestic space or denying the 75:17 importance of the kitchen 75:19 but revealing that importance and that 75:22 instead of 75:22 a reframing of like you know women were 75:25 shackled to 75:26 earn tied down to the stove right they 75:29 couldn't that this was 75:30 this was a forced roll reframing that 75:33 the kitchen as this vital like like soul 75:36 of the home soul of community 75:39 um and and then mixing those references 75:42 with 75:42 like um with mythology and 75:46 and the the the meanings that come 75:49 from uh you know the empowerment that 75:52 comes from that i think 75:52 is exactly sort of what you're talking 75:54 about fran that there is 75:56 um it's the empowerment of that space 75:59 um that it's not just you know should be 76:03 looked at as a burden on women but 76:06 framing reframing that all 76:07 you know so that leads us to the next 76:11 question that zayna and i 76:12 would like jessica to answer this um 76:15 since you are the newest 76:16 mother i think or maybe not i'm wrong 76:19 but 76:20 among you and tara you have the youngest 76:22 daughter that says 76:23 she asked i'm curious about how these 76:25 beautiful conversations and pieces 76:27 are being held within your own families 76:30 are there ways you've learned to 76:32 navigate those conversations or do you 76:35 or do your strategies to communicate in 76:37 common language 76:38 translate inform and open dialogue with 76:42 them i mean 76:43 specifically just talking about your 76:45 mother-in-law and bringing the 76:46 you know kimono doll the porcelain dolls 76:49 in right that's sort of like that 76:50 conversation 76:52 about this going on yeah i 76:55 i i hear you friend but i also wanna and 76:58 max has a lot to say 77:00 i also wanna lift up me this is like we 77:03 got 10 minutes left 77:05 thank you i also want to wait i'm sorry 77:08 she'll be fine um i also want to uplift 77:12 um 77:13 and correct me if i'm on because i know 77:14 you're on the call but 77:17 joanna that that jay is a part of your 77:19 name 77:20 uh joanna is an incredibly prominent 77:23 uh curator she helds out of detroit but 77:27 she is an independent curator she's an 77:29 amazing force within the industry in the 77:31 sector 77:32 and um tara and i are both deeply 77:34 honored that she's participating on this 77:36 call tonight especially that she asked 77:39 such such a very important question so i 77:41 just want to uplift her 77:43 um while she's in this space and thank 77:44 you for being here um 77:46 okay and then in terms of this question 77:48 yeah i mean this is sticky 77:50 you know but i think that the only way 77:52 that we move forward in these instances 77:54 is if that 77:54 if we bring light to these moments you 77:57 know it can't just be 77:58 um not acknowledging them oh pardon 78:01 it can't be that we not acknowledge them 78:03 i think it's that we have to really 78:05 um find an opportunity to find ways to 78:08 insert these conversations into our day 78:10 you know our daily lives um i would be 78:13 remiss if 78:14 i if i let her talk to my child like 78:16 that you know i think 78:19 the fear in me um 78:22 is about what happens when we don't 78:26 have these kinds of talks with people 78:28 especially if they're in our families 78:30 because what happens when i'm not there 78:32 to defend my child you know i think the 78:34 the point is how can we prepare our 78:36 children so that when 78:37 we aren't present um they feel empowered 78:40 to be able to have the space and the 78:42 ability 78:42 and the autonomy to protect and arm 78:45 themselves you know because i'm not 78:47 always 78:48 this is this is to tara's point of you 78:50 know our children might come through us 78:52 but they are not from us 78:54 um and i think the work of being a 78:58 mother 78:59 um is to be able to just provide her 79:02 with the tools 79:03 that she needs to be able to move and 79:05 navigate through this world the best way 79:08 that i can you know i can't you're right 79:11 fran i'm new 79:12 and i'm i'm trying to figure it out as 79:14 best as i can but i 79:16 i know that i won't always be able to be 79:18 present to speak on her behalf 79:20 or to protect her from everything and so 79:23 i i also see examples of the way that uh 79:26 my mother did this for me you know and 79:29 how her mother probably did it for her 79:31 it's like 79:32 how do you just enable them um and arm 79:35 them 79:36 so that when they are in these instances 79:38 they know how to best navigate 79:40 themselves 79:41 i hope that answers your question 79:50 do you want any follow-ups and yes i i i 79:54 just wanted to say i am i'm kind of a 79:56 fan girl of juana williams so 79:59 um hi i'm so glad you're here 80:04 um and uh so moving on let's um 80:08 uh are there any other questions that we 80:10 have we are 80:11 at 5 54 and so we have about six more 80:15 minutes this is going 80:17 really really well um jessica 80:20 can you tell us a little bit 80:23 more about your piece that i know it's 80:27 part of the lioness collective but it's 80:29 sort of 80:30 in initially it was supposed to be 80:31 really congruent 80:33 to the whole to the three of you the 80:35 lioness collective is a 80:36 a group of women artists who uh make 80:40 work about motherhood but 80:42 as the exhibition sort of like 80:46 moved from being at the festival 80:49 to being virtual to being at carlow your 80:53 your piece kind of i don't know sort of 80:56 like 80:57 beco became its own entity can you tell 80:59 us about that 81:00 and how you know how that process came 81:03 about 81:05 yeah i um man max was just nursing all 81:09 the all the time 81:13 like it felt like i couldn't i couldn't 81:15 do anything i was just like 81:17 stationed in um in a chair 81:20 and um you know like just 81:24 my body was not my own and uh 81:28 olga who's the founder and director of 81:30 the lioness collective which is a group 81:32 of 81:33 uh mother artists here in pittsburgh 81:36 um organized an exhibition in january 81:40 max was born in november you know so she 81:42 was a real babe 81:43 and uh max was making a series of 81:46 drawings that were digital drawings 81:48 um that were uh 81:51 created you know using these kinds of 81:53 devices 81:54 and i found myself sitting in that chair 81:58 while i was nursing and excuse me 82:00 turning her 82:01 digital drawings into soft sculptures um 82:04 that were then installed in a way that 82:06 made them accessible to other young 82:09 small people um so i i hung them 82:12 very low to the ground and they were 82:14 larger than life 82:16 um uh and people you know these little 82:19 creatures could touch them and play with 82:21 them 82:22 and activate these what were originally 82:24 max's marks 82:26 um that became things that they could 82:28 touch 82:29 and fill and uh originally 82:33 as a part of this exhibition i plan on 82:35 doing the same but then max wasn't 82:37 nearly as still you know 82:40 after uh i mean she's still nursing but 82:43 then she wanted to touch things and 82:45 i didn't have use of my hands in a way 82:48 to 82:49 um sew in a in a way that i could before 82:51 in the beginning it was such a relaxing 82:53 process you know she would be nursing on 82:55 me and i would just 82:56 find myself doing this really repetitive 82:58 pattern with my hands and 83:00 then that became no longer a thing you 83:02 know you know when you have like this 83:04 six three to six months old and they're 83:06 pulling on everything 83:07 and then it became uh like almost a 83:09 dangerous moment right because i have 83:11 this needle in my hand and she's 83:12 reaching for everything so 83:14 um this required the practice to change 83:17 and so um i found 83:21 ways to think about how i could continue 83:24 to 83:25 be in dialogue with my daughter in my 83:27 practice 83:29 but let my practice evolve naturally 83:32 and so that ended up being you know and 83:35 again like i just kept hearing myself 83:37 say these things to her 83:39 like just for example today before this 83:41 phone call 83:42 uh i i was on the phone with wanna 83:45 and max crawled up the stairs three 83:48 times in a row 83:49 and i found myself saying just go slower 83:53 go slow go slow and it's like these 83:56 things that just you know we say 83:58 so quickly to our children but i there 84:00 are so many instances in my life 84:02 in my career my practice where i wish 84:05 like i don't know the almighty spoke 84:07 down to me and said go 84:08 slow you know like i heard it in that 84:12 way 84:13 to make myself like reflect and actually 84:16 move in that 84:17 like just slow down you know get your 84:20 balance 84:21 and so that's um that's ultimately how 84:24 this work uh came to be fran and i 84:27 anticipate 84:28 to tj's question earlier um how does 84:31 motherhood continue to affect your work 84:34 in your practice 84:35 um i i anticipate that 84:38 as max grows older and continues to 84:42 change and evolve that the practice 84:45 will continue to do the same and being 84:49 artists but also curators 84:52 to another point that was brought up in 84:53 the chat 84:55 this this mothering practice affects all 84:58 of it 84:59 you know like i can't not imagine um 85:02 thinking about working curatorially and 85:04 not 85:05 having this influence part of my 85:07 practice i can't imagine making 85:09 something 85:10 and it not influenced my prac you know 85:13 and so 85:14 um they have kind of become one and the 85:16 same 85:17 uh in my in my uh in my youth 85:21 of being a mother um but i think it's a 85:24 change that i'm really 85:25 welcoming um and really excited about 85:29 so thank you for that that question i 85:32 just want to let you know it also 85:33 becomes one and the same when you're a 85:35 grandmother 85:36 i am a grandmother now and i find that 85:38 my art practice has become one in the 85:41 same 85:41 as being a grandmother and a mother so 85:43 now there's three tiers of it right 85:45 artist grandmother and mother and it's 85:47 an incredible feeling that i really feel 85:49 that 85:50 so so not many of us are 85:53 privileged to experience i'm very 85:55 grateful but dude does jessica 85:57 uh well we're at six o'clock can you 85:59 guys believe this time just flew is it 86:01 me or is it the wine 86:08 i didn't you terry do you have any last 86:10 words 86:11 um i just want to say and also you 86:14 jessica 86:15 i'm going to give you both of you the 86:16 floor at the end but i just want to say 86:18 that thank you 86:19 um for being role models um 86:22 for our youth and and other artists who 86:25 are embarking on this 86:26 um journey of being mothers and artists 86:30 it is 86:31 it's very difficult sometimes to find 86:34 um people that you can 86:37 uh admire and look to for for strength 86:41 and 86:42 for encouragement to meld the two 86:44 practices together because 86:46 it is it is it's a difficult process 86:48 it's not easy what you all are doing and 86:50 i am uh 86:51 and i'm very grateful to you so thank 86:54 you everyone 86:55 happy anthropology of motherhood yes 86:57 thanks everyone just 86:58 uh real quick i just want to say jess i 87:00 am sitting in your chair 87:04 when you talked about this like space of 87:06 respite it reminded me of like 87:08 yeah because i've got two little ones 87:09 and you know work and at one point 87:12 i remember recall being relieved when i 87:14 got to go to the dentist 87:16 just because i could just sit and it 87:18 could be quiet 87:19 i mean that it's just funny like that 87:21 like how you you know 87:23 again how experiences and places 87:26 that are normally not thought of as 87:29 restful 87:29 can be reframed that way in our everyday 87:32 especially 87:33 as you you care for little ones but 87:35 thank you so much jess thank you so much 87:37 tariff 87:39 thank you amy thank you fran for making 87:40 this space for us thank you guys all for 87:43 participating on this call thank you for 87:44 dealing with the hoteparry 87:46 um we appreciate all y'all sitting here 87:50 and um spending your friday you know the 87:52 jump of your friday night with us 87:54 tara do you remember it was it was like 87:56 literally march it was my birthday i 87:58 think it was march 11th like before 88:00 quarantine like this was the beginning 88:01 of quarantine we had our final drink 88:03 together 88:04 yeah that was the last time i think i 88:05 had even been out 88:07 dame same so it's nice to remember 88:10 because i was at 88:11 umami first yes wow 88:15 thank you for thank you for having a 88:17 drink with me tonight 88:18 in our computers um thank you guys for 88:21 all joining us 88:23 it's it's lovely to be in community with 88:25 you tara do you 88:26 you know you got a 10 and a 5 and i got 88:29 a 13 months so can you give me some 88:30 advice before we 88:32 before we jump off i think you're 88:34 already doing amazing 88:37 she's growing up in a house with so much 88:38 love and she has an amazing mama 88:42 i love you i love you more not more the 88:46 same 88:46 all right i love you the same 88:50 all right thanks fam thanks for being 88:52 here tonight 88:53 there's more um there's more 88:55 anthropology of 88:57 of motherhood programming um in january 89:00 tara and i are going to speak with muffy 89:02 mendoza 89:03 about educating our children um in 89:07 a white supremacist capitalist 89:11 world and we hope that you all will join 89:14 us 89:14 for that talk it's uh the 15th 89:18 of january at 4 30 um but if you follow 89:22 anthropology you'll be able to 89:24 anthropology of motherhood on instagram 89:26 or 89:27 at miss tarafe or at jessieplane you 89:30 will 89:31 find more information about it so i hope 89:33 to see you guys 89:35 thank you sarah i hope to see you guys 89:37 all there on the next chat as well 89:40 holding you up thank you everyone good 89:42 night 89:43 good night everyone thank you 89:46 love you tara love you hi veronica 89:53 you