okay everybody welcome to 00:03 this afternoon slash evenings panel with 00:06 the anthropology of motherhood project 00:10 the anthropology of motherhood 00:13 is an ongoing curation of artwork and 00:17 design 00:17 that engages in the complex visual 00:20 material 00:20 emotional corporeal and lived 00:23 experiences 00:24 of motherhood caregiving parenting 00:28 nurturing and maternal labor 00:32 so we're very excited for um 00:35 this evening's event um 00:38 and i'm really excited to hear more from 00:41 our speakers 00:43 we have um 00:46 here one second i knocked out of my 00:49 view here 00:53 we have the amazing tara faye 00:56 coleman we have jessica 01:00 gaynell moss and we have muffy mendoza 01:04 speaking to us about black motherhood 01:07 caregiving and decolonizing education 01:11 i also want to remind everyone another 01:14 time that this 01:16 evening's event will be recorded so 01:19 i would invite you to hide your view and 01:22 zoom if you don't wish to be seen 01:25 and feel free to use the chat box and i 01:27 will 01:28 message you if you need any further 01:30 instructions about that 01:32 and without further ado i'm going to 01:34 hand it over to 01:35 our amazing artist and mother panelists 01:39 for this exciting conversation 01:48 are we ready 01:54 i think so i'm sorry i apologize so 01:57 let's um let's hear first from our 01:59 curator amy bowman macaloni and then 02:01 um then we'll get started uh just a 02:04 little brief 02:05 uh introduction about the anthropology 02:07 of motherhood exhibition and welcome 02:09 everyone 02:10 my name is fran flaherty i'm the 02:12 exhibition 02:13 co-curator and founder of the project 02:16 and here is 02:17 miss amy bowman mcalone 02:21 hi fran thank you sarah thank you uh 02:24 muffy and jessica and tara 02:26 welcome everybody um it's really great 02:29 to see 02:30 all of you or have you be part of this 02:33 zoom event 02:35 we have representation from carlos 02:38 students we have 02:39 uh another artist that's in the show uh 02:42 sue berman as well as a whole 02:46 group of community members so we're 02:48 really grateful for having everybody 02:50 here 02:51 um so before we hand it off to these 02:53 amazing amazing panelists 02:55 who are we are so excited to to have and 02:58 have this dialogue 02:59 conversation um just wanted to mention a 03:03 few things about the show 03:04 um sarah introduced the concept as fran 03:07 said this is this is fran's baby 03:09 uh she is the founder this is uh its 03:12 fifth or sixth 03:13 iteration and um i am so appreciative 03:16 that fran asked me to be 03:18 part of the project uh this past year um 03:21 so we uh with the idea and the intent 03:24 um you know the original exhibitions 03:27 that fran developed 03:28 were at the pittsburgh farmers arts 03:30 festival 03:31 and what was really uh unique 03:34 uh and and innovative about the shows 03:38 is that they were an art exhibition 03:40 paired 03:41 with a nursing space a space of respite 03:45 for for caregivers for mothers for 03:47 children 03:48 um and that is and i feel like 03:52 uh you know some of the panelists and 03:54 artists that have been on our pan 03:56 uh panels have heard me say this a bunch 03:58 of times but 03:59 it is a really radical thing to have 04:02 to to integrate into an art space 04:06 a space uh for care and for 04:09 breastfeeding 04:10 and for motherhood um and 04:14 because art spaces are usually um 04:17 you know uh have a certain behavior a 04:20 certain set of decorum that doesn't 04:22 that excludes and and doesn't uh 04:25 uh include children even or anybody 04:28 other than 04:28 uh able-bodied adults that can go around 04:31 and see the artwork 04:33 um but the thing is is that it shouldn't 04:35 be radical 04:36 because the artwork and the show are and 04:39 the artists 04:40 um are engaging in representations 04:43 of the aesthetics and labor of 04:46 caregiving 04:48 which are essential to humanity 04:51 and which are acts that occur daily 04:55 and that sustain us all and you know 04:58 never more than 04:59 in this in this you know very 05:01 challenging moment with the pandemic 05:03 does it highlight that the ethos ethics 05:06 and culture of care 05:08 as being so um paramount um 05:11 and so we're really pleased to have uh 05:14 this exhibition at carlow 05:15 um and uh the show is running through 05:19 the end of january 05:21 we're looking to extend it for a week or 05:23 two 05:24 so that we can allow in person 05:28 some in-person visitation since carlo's 05:30 campus has been 05:31 remote since november with the most 05:33 recent surge 05:35 but again i just want to thank fran and 05:38 i want to thank all the artists 05:39 for for this amazing amazing project so 05:41 with that 05:42 um i'll hand it over to tara muffy and 05:45 jessica 05:46 uh to get the this panel started thank 05:50 you 05:53 hey y'all thanks for being here today 05:57 um i know that i can speak on behalf of 05:59 muffy and tara when i say thank you so 06:01 much for 06:02 choosing to spend your friday afternoon 06:04 with all of us 06:05 on a zoom call um thank you to fran and 06:08 amy 06:09 for hosting us in both the exhibition 06:12 and in our dialogue today um 06:15 so much gratitude to start our call off 06:18 and 06:19 in welcoming people for being here on 06:21 friday so thank you to everyone 06:26 definitely echoing the same sentiment 06:29 i'm hoping that we can have a really 06:31 great conversation two-way conversation 06:34 whether that's in the chat or whether 06:36 that's during a q a 06:37 and just talk about the ways in which we 06:40 can decolonize the black mothering 06:42 experience 06:43 and begin to define for ourselves what 06:46 we want how we want to be as mothers 06:48 what we want to see as the 06:49 end product or the manifestation of our 06:51 motherhood journeys 06:52 and how we want to operate in the world 06:54 and you know in general as black mother 06:56 so 06:57 thank you for taking out the time and 06:59 you know i'm just hoping to 07:01 spark some riveting thought-provoking 07:04 conversation that gives you something to 07:06 chew on a little bit later 07:10 matthew that was so beautifully said 07:13 thank you 07:15 i'll be trying 07:22 all right so 07:23 [Music] 07:26 like we're always so slow in the 07:27 beginning and then we're going to run 07:28 out of time at the end so like let's 07:30 just jump into it muffy how do i raise 07:32 my daughter what should i do 07:35 i don't know i don't have any daughters 07:37 um 07:38 i really don't believe in 07:41 it's interesting because i was reading 07:42 an article yesterday about how we should 07:44 stop putting so much stock 07:46 into this guided 07:50 parent thing that we always try to do or 07:52 this i call it guarding 07:54 the guardianship of children i'm a big 07:56 believer in 07:57 freedom i'm a big believer in raising 08:00 children 08:00 with freedom and space and place to be 08:03 their authentic self and more so as a 08:05 guide versus a guard 08:07 um i don't like to give too much 08:10 parenting advice 08:11 outside of as women learning especially 08:14 as black women 08:15 learning how to trust our intuition 08:18 learning how to trust our 08:19 guts um i often find that anytime i make 08:22 decisions 08:23 whether it's for in regards to parenting 08:26 or anything else when i'm making 08:27 decisions that are not in alignment with 08:30 my true authentic self when i'm not 08:32 listening to my intuition is typically 08:34 when 08:35 things go awry 08:38 um so for me if the question is how do i 08:42 raise my kids i would say raise yourself 08:45 focus on raising yourself focus on 08:49 making sure that you are daily having 08:52 those 08:52 internal conversations that are allowing 08:55 you to be in touch with the needs of 08:58 other people because you can't really be 09:00 in touch with the needs of other people 09:02 if you don't 09:03 really know what self-authenticity looks 09:05 like from an 09:06 internal standpoint so the closer you 09:09 get to that place of finding internal 09:11 peace 09:12 the easier it will be for you to guide 09:14 your children 09:15 and not necessarily have to put so much 09:18 force 09:18 and effort into guarding them mavi let 09:21 me ask you a question how many kids do 09:23 you have and what are their ages 09:25 so i have three sons they are 18 09:29 11 12 and 11. 09:32 and i've been at home so my oldest son's 09:35 homeschool journey was 09:37 interesting because he'd been in school 09:39 he was in school until 09:41 seventh grade we pulled him out at the 09:43 end of eighth grade and then we 09:45 homeschooled him until he was in 11th 09:47 grade 09:48 and then he went back halfway through 09:50 his 11th year and 09:51 11th grade year and finished school 09:54 in school and then with my two younger 09:57 ones 09:59 we've been home so i always like to say 10:00 my oldest son was kind of like my guinea 10:02 pig 10:03 i like i've done a lot of experimenting 10:06 with him 10:07 um and then my younger two i've been 10:09 homeschooling them since they were in 10:10 kindergarten in first grade 10:12 so um you know it's been it's been a 10:16 journey 10:16 it's been a real journey because i've 10:18 learned more than 10:19 i've learned so much about them but 10:21 they've taught me so much about myself 10:24 what about you ladies what are what are 10:26 your parenting statuses right now 10:30 um hello ladies um i 10:34 have six children um 10:37 i'm new to homeschooling and i'm 10:41 just currently homeschooling three it's 10:43 kinda hard 10:45 muffy i just sent away for you brown 10:48 mama's 10:49 bundle i'm waiting for it so 10:53 that should help me along with my 10:55 journey 10:56 um this is very new um 11:00 and i don't know i'm a little afraid 11:03 but you know us as black women we do 11:05 what we got to do when we got to do it 11:07 and get it done 11:08 and so that's what i'm trying to 11:11 to get myself you know focused with my 11:14 three 11:15 that i'm trying to homeschool 11:19 again a 11:23 third grader and a freighter so it's a 11:26 little bit hard so 11:28 just trying to listen to you like y'all 11:31 ladies 11:35 just for you sam i would highly 11:37 recommend 11:38 listening to akilah richard's fair of 11:41 the free child 11:42 podcast i would get that on my listening 11:46 list as soon as possible you can find 11:48 her on apple 11:49 you can find her on google 11:53 you can find her on facebook and youtube 11:55 but i would get that on my playlist like 11:57 asap 11:58 she helped me to just get rid of a lot 12:01 of the fears i had around homeschooling 12:03 my kids actually always 12:05 in reference to my homeschooling journey 12:07 i always like to say there was my 12:09 homeschooling journey before akilah and 12:11 after akilah 12:12 but she completely reshaped my thought 12:16 process thank you for posting that 12:17 jessica 12:18 she completely reshaped my thought 12:20 process around what i thought it was 12:22 that i had to do 12:24 with my kids and after listening to her 12:26 i realized 12:28 she was the one who gave me the whole 12:30 guide versus guard concept 12:32 a lot of the stuff that i talk about is 12:34 in reflection 12:36 on the material that she's presented and 12:38 she actually just wrote a book which 12:40 i'll be doing a giveaway for on 12:41 instagram next week 12:43 um called i can't remember i know it's 12:45 called unschooling something 12:46 i think it might be called fear of the 12:48 free child 12:50 um yeah she's like she is my 12:52 homeschooling idol 12:55 so i have a i have a question here so 12:58 muffy you have three boys 13:00 right and your oldest is 18. jessica 13:02 you're 13:03 you have a how old is your baby 13:06 14 months 14 months and tara 13:10 you have that's beautiful a 10 year old 13:13 and a 5 year old 13:14 now your 10 year old and your 5 year old 13:17 are in mainstream school 13:19 right and muffy you jessica obviously 13:23 your 13:24 your daughters max is still at home um 13:27 and it's such a wonderful time period i 13:30 in my opinion with my kids it was my 13:32 favorite time 13:33 between infancy and the time they got 13:35 went to school there was just 13:36 so much love and so much you know 13:39 organic learning and that 13:41 so muffy i'm interested in the journey 13:44 to homeschooling now you had mentioned 13:46 the story of your oldest 13:48 that he was in school first and then he 13:51 decided 13:52 to homeschool him and then he went back 13:55 in 11th grade and 13:56 finished i'm really curious as to 14:00 what prompted those back and forth um 14:03 you know the 14:04 this shift from the mainstream schooling 14:06 and i'm calling them mainstream 14:08 schooling 14:09 just because you know i don't i i don't 14:12 know what else to call that in a public 14:13 school or 14:14 you know um but but yeah if you could 14:17 speak to that 14:18 tell me why yeah i'm going to tell you 14:21 why there was nothing 14:22 it was all of it was my insecurity the 14:25 entire 14:26 thing was my own insecurity i took him 14:30 out of school because i was 14:31 insecure about what was happening in 14:33 school then i put him back in school 14:34 because i was insecure about what was 14:36 happening at my house and it took for me 14:38 to put him back in school 14:39 and him to come back and say mom i wish 14:41 he would never put me back in school 14:42 for me to realize that he didn't want to 14:45 be in school in the first damn place out 14:47 of all of my children 14:48 well i can't say my probably my oldest 14:52 and my middle benefit the most 14:55 from homeschooling because they are 14:56 creatives because they think outside the 14:59 box because they're really really highly 15:01 intelligent and they don't need anybody 15:03 to guide them 15:03 in school you they're the two of them 15:06 you can just give them their schoolwork 15:08 and they just finish it and they're 15:08 ready to move on to the next thing 15:10 but it was all about my own insecurity 15:14 sam had mentioned the brown mama mindset 15:16 a lot of people get the book and they 15:17 think it's about parenting it's not 15:19 it's about removing systemic insecurity 15:21 from black women 15:22 it's about the journey you go on the 15:24 mindset you have to develop in order to 15:26 be a good parent in order to be a good 15:28 partner in order to be a good person to 15:30 yourself 15:32 because i always tell people 15:34 homeschooling is not so much about the 15:35 kids as 15:36 it's been about healing homeschooling is 15:38 really about healing and i hate even 15:40 giving it the title homeschooling 15:42 because i don't even feel comfortable 15:43 calling at that anymore 15:44 um it was the thing that rescued me 15:48 from being on this assumed success path 15:52 that we oftentimes enter onto when we 15:55 are 15:56 under the guise of white supremacy 15:58 because we're not able to define for 16:00 ourselves and taking my kids out of 16:02 school 16:02 forced me at every turn to really 16:05 pay attention to things that were 16:07 important versus when my kids weren't in 16:10 school 16:10 when my kids were in school i had all 16:12 this free time and i kind of just found 16:14 ways to fill it up 16:15 well once they were there with me 16:17 children are mirrors 16:18 so they're like mates but to the 10th 16:21 power 16:22 because they are literally acting you 16:24 out every day of their lives so you're 16:26 paying attention 16:27 and having them with you forces you to 16:30 pay attention like you don't have a 16:31 choice 16:32 so you're looking at yourself when 16:33 you're looking at your child's 16:35 insecurity when you're looking at their 16:36 tears when you're looking at their 16:37 happiness and their joys the number one 16:39 thing you have to remember is you put 16:40 that there 16:42 now when they get older as my son got 16:44 older and is out in the world now i'm 16:46 realizing oh that ain't me some of 16:47 that's just you 16:49 but a lot of it is me 16:52 so i'm looking at myself constantly in 16:55 these three different 16:56 like reincarnations and 17:00 it's they've gifted me so much in terms 17:03 of just being able to learn about myself 17:05 but to answer your question 17:06 all of that was my insecurity at every 17:10 stage at every step of the way and 17:12 the more i was with them the more i 17:14 began to see 17:16 how my insecurities were playing out in 17:18 their lives 17:19 so just just a reminder that's muffy 17:21 mendoza she's the founder of brown mamas 17:23 and it's a group um 17:25 and and also the producer of the brown 17:27 mama's 17:28 monologue which i was looking forward to 17:30 last year which we did not have 17:33 because of the pandemic you you've um 17:36 collected an incredible amount of 17:39 resources 17:40 uh for for brown mamas in in exactly 17:43 the the type of um guidance that was 17:46 lacking you're really filling in 17:48 something here 17:49 that um that is completely lacking in 17:53 our 17:54 system in the system of education um but 17:58 and i'm and you can stop me if you want 18:00 to but i'm really 18:01 curious because you mentioned 18:02 insecurities that that was what prompted 18:05 you 18:06 to take your son out of school and then 18:09 back 18:09 in school and we all have insecurities 18:14 about our children we may every day 18:16 every minute you know am i feeding too 18:18 much am i not 18:19 is the milk too cold or too warm 18:23 is um are they eating should i be giving 18:26 organic food um 18:28 should they be walking at this age or 18:30 should i wait another day i mean from 18:31 the little ones to when they're finally 18:34 at school and they get a little bit of 18:37 homework 18:38 and you know let's say i don't know i'm 18:41 old so i'm going to say you know like 18:44 run jane run you know that 18:47 that book and i don't know how many 18:49 people know about ron j 18:51 brown but you know it's just like 18:55 two blue eyed blonde haired 19:00 kids literally running in a countryside 19:04 is just completely foreign and 19:06 you know they bring home these lessons 19:08 plants and you're like okay we don't 19:10 relate to that our family is not that 19:12 um but then we're learning about that i 19:14 mean that's the insecurity that i had 19:17 um so yes okay if you if you could 19:20 what brought about the self-awareness 19:24 so there was i would say there was what 19:27 i call 19:27 legit insecurity which is kind of like 19:30 legit i was concerned about what was 19:32 happening at my kid's school and then 19:34 there were my insecurities that were 19:36 just like yo i got some childhood 19:38 trauma that you know are my issues 19:41 and those are playing a part too so the 19:44 legit 19:45 like insecurity was i became a room 19:48 parent at my kids school and i went to 19:50 the school 19:51 and i will never forget this one 19:53 instance where 19:55 i was serving um breakfast to all the 19:58 teachers for a teacher appreciation day 20:00 and i was taking the breakfast cart up 20:03 the elevator i got off the elevator and 20:05 the teacher must not have heard me but 20:07 the way this school was built it was 20:08 like had little sections 20:10 like each classroom was in its own 20:12 little section 20:13 and i was coming around the corner with 20:15 the breakfast cart 20:16 and there was a teacher a white male 20:18 teacher and he 20:20 had a little black boy pinned up against 20:22 the wall 20:23 with his fingers in his face and just 20:26 doing this to him and at that moment i 20:29 was like oh hell no my kids won't ever 20:30 get here because i will 20:31 kill you like i will kill you if i see 20:34 that 20:35 happening with my son and so that 20:38 informed me and then also there was 20:40 another 20:41 the the straw that broke the camel's 20:43 back was this little girl 20:45 um she was in my middle son's classroom 20:48 which my middle son at the time was the 20:50 top of his class of course he was only 20:51 in first grade but he was really really 20:53 smart doing really good in school 20:55 everything 20:55 like that no big problems at all um 20:59 and so when this little girl 21:02 was really really smart 21:06 but every time i would go to class she 21:08 would be at the back of the classroom 21:10 and she would be sitting with her feet 21:12 on the desk almost kind of like 21:14 you know when you walk like if there's a 21:16 guy watching football and he's like 21:18 really really comfortable 21:20 in the class in his space he's got his 21:22 feet on the table like she was just like 21:24 she was just in class like that but she 21:26 had been put in the black of class 21:28 because they said she had a learning 21:29 disability 21:30 and i'll never forget this one day i 21:32 ended up being there the whole day 21:34 and every step of the way she would call 21:37 out 21:38 everything that was happening in the 21:39 class she would say it's time for us to 21:41 get our manipulatives 21:42 it's time for this to happen it's time 21:44 for that to happen 21:46 oh don't forget so and so needs this uh 21:49 you know so that he can do his history 21:51 work and the teacher found it extremely 21:53 annoying 21:53 but i'm sitting there watching this 21:55 little girl i'm like she's nothing's 21:57 wrong with her 21:58 she's outgrown this environment she's 22:00 bored and nobody is offering her an 22:03 alternative 22:04 and so i went to the teacher i said hey 22:06 did you ever think about 22:07 her just maybe being gifted because she 22:09 knows what's going on in class like i'm 22:11 watching her 22:12 she knows and i knew some of the kids 22:14 that had behavioral problems and i 22:16 compared them to her and i was like this 22:17 is not the same thing like she's 22:19 something different 22:20 um and the teacher was just like well 22:23 they've designated her as having a 22:25 learning disability 22:26 there's nothing else we can do about it 22:28 and so i just remember going home every 22:30 time i was in class and thinking about 22:32 this child 22:34 and thinking my son is in first grade 22:36 he's at the top of the class 22:38 he's reading well he's doing math well 22:41 this is going to be him one day 22:43 when he gets to that point where he gets 22:45 a teacher who doesn't want to challenge 22:46 him 22:47 where he gets a teacher who's not 22:48 interested in hearing 22:50 about that he might be bored this might 22:53 be him 22:54 so you know as much as i wish i would 22:57 have maybe took an 22:58 action to be like oh we're going to 22:59 liberate all these kids at that moment 23:01 all i could do was think about 23:03 my kids and i was just like i can't 23:06 all of my kids are really really smart 23:08 and i said i can't 23:10 i can't have my kid be that kid so i'm 23:12 gonna have to do something about it 23:14 so that was like my legitimate concern 23:17 and then also i'm an 23:18 avid studier of african history so i 23:21 understand 23:22 the impetus for schooling and american 23:24 history i understand the impetus for 23:26 schooling 23:27 i understand why black children are 23:29 often pushed to the back of the 23:30 classroom 23:31 and i also understand that those are 23:33 systemic problems 23:34 they're not necessarily problems that 23:36 you can fix by pointing it out to a 23:37 teacher or letting a principal know this 23:39 is an issue 23:40 when a problem is systemic it means that 23:42 there is a mindset in place 23:44 that is overpowering the individuals 23:47 within the situation 23:48 and and there's also a system in place 23:51 so there's a mindset which is a box 23:53 within the mind that doesn't allow 23:55 people to think outside of it and then 23:56 there's also things in place 23:58 that are supporting the perpetuation of 24:00 that mindset 24:01 so i knew that in order for me to that 24:04 even if i could make a difference on a 24:06 massive 24:07 level the time it would take to trickle 24:09 down for that to 24:10 have a triple down effect would you know 24:14 be way longer than my getting my kid out 24:17 of just getting my kid out of the 24:18 classroom 24:19 so and then i had also my own childhood 24:22 trauma because i was that little girl at 24:23 the back of the classroom which is why 24:25 she resonated so much for me because i 24:27 was her 24:28 and i was pushed along and just pushed 24:31 along and pushed along 24:33 and my giftedness was never recognized 24:35 until i started picking up books and 24:37 reading them on my own 24:38 and i didn't want that to be my kids so 24:40 those were definitely 24:41 the things that caused me to just be 24:44 like all right 24:45 it's just time for me to make a change 24:46 for my children um 24:48 at least for my children right now did 24:51 that happen 24:52 how do you uh brought this point up fran 24:54 there's like okay i'm putting it in the 24:56 chat right now 24:57 there's this poem by margaret burroughs 25:00 who 25:01 she's the co-founder of the dustopple 25:03 museum in chicago 25:05 a visual artist writer poet educator 25:07 arts organizer 25:09 and um the poem is what should i tell my 25:12 children who are black 25:14 and the poem starts off talking about 25:16 how there's so many 25:17 negative connotations associated with 25:19 blackness 25:21 and this is what our children are taught 25:23 in schools you know i think 25:24 this line um what should i tell my 25:26 children who are black 25:28 of what it means to be captive in this 25:30 dark skin what should i tell my dear one 25:31 fruit of my womb of how beautiful they 25:33 are 25:34 when everywhere they turn they're forced 25:36 in abortions of everything that is black 25:38 villains are black with black hearts a 25:40 black cow gives no milk black hen lays 25:42 no eggs black news comes 25:44 bordered in black black is evil and 25:46 evil's black and 25:47 devil's food is black but then she goes 25:49 in the second stanza 25:51 and says and what should i tell my dear 25:53 ones raise in a white world 25:54 a place where white has been made to 25:56 represent all that is good 25:57 and pure and fine and decent where 25:59 clouds are white and dolls and heaven 26:02 surely is a white white place with 26:03 angels roped in white 26:05 cotton candy and ice cream and milk and 26:07 ruffled sunday dresses and dream houses 26:10 and long-sleeve cadillacs and angel's 26:12 food is white and all in all is white 26:14 the poem goes on but i think it speaks 26:16 so much to your point muffy of 26:18 how we can't control these environments 26:20 that our children are in 26:22 if they're in these public places like 26:24 this and that tension is something where 26:26 i'm i'm learning from you and really 26:28 empowered by your words 26:29 of creating environments that you can 26:31 control for your children 26:33 and choosing to find literature and 26:35 information to share with them that 26:36 doesn't just perpetuate these same ideas 26:38 about us and the way that we are doing 26:41 things is so wrong 26:43 and othered you know so i encourage you 26:46 all to 26:46 to watch that video burroughs because i 26:48 think it's really brilliant and she's 26:50 just 26:51 you know another black brilliant mama 26:54 who's got quite a legacy behind her 26:56 thank you thank you that's great um 27:00 i'm sorry yes go ahead oh i just have a 27:03 question 27:04 um okay so 27:08 hello everyone um thank you for holding 27:10 space for this 27:11 as well um i have a 27:14 daughter she's almost two years old 27:17 um and i take education very serious 27:21 um i'm an artist as well 27:24 so i basically to get to the question 27:26 i'm i'm trying to find ways to 27:29 um teach her you know the basics numbers 27:34 alphabet all of that but i find myself 27:37 being that i you know multitask when i'm 27:40 home 27:41 um getting caught up with the you know 27:43 ubongo kids or keeling me 27:45 on the computer and i find myself 27:48 specifically struggling to you know 27:51 um teach her how to you know learn the 27:54 basics of you know 27:55 like i said abc's 123 is keeping her 27:57 engaged because she's very 27:59 smart reading her books and being very 28:01 afro-centric 28:02 with her learning skills or her learning 28:04 habits 28:05 um but i i don't know i'm just trying to 28:07 find 28:08 resources and ways to engage and teach 28:11 my daughter 28:12 um just you know how to grow and be 28:15 intelligent 28:15 and use her intelligence and uh 28:18 i've done so much research but i can't 28:20 really find something that's not online 28:23 something that is not electronic based 28:25 and 28:26 i would like to know how did you 28:28 navigate that 28:29 in early ages for your children um 28:33 muffy so 28:37 after this i think it's a good time for 28:38 me and jessica to use the conversation 28:40 we were having before 28:42 because i have questions for you ebony 28:45 number one ain't you african 28:49 yes so why do you need to teach your 28:51 daughter 28:52 afrocentricity you are by very nature 28:57 the problem with africans on american 28:58 soil for some reason 29:00 we think we're not african you are a 29:03 black woman 29:04 you are an african woman you don't teach 29:07 your daughter how to be african you just 29:09 need to teach your daughter 29:11 how to be her yeah that's it 29:14 you don't in terms of the more history 29:17 the 29:18 this point hold on very wrong 29:22 i'm not asking how to teach my daughter 29:24 how to be black or african 29:26 that's not what it is it's more so of 29:28 the resources that i find 29:30 like for example having a simple toy 29:32 with vtec you know a phone 29:34 you know and they have you know white 29:36 faces on there um i'm talking more so of 29:40 having a a learning 29:43 first for a mother that is not quite you 29:45 know a teacher 29:46 in the sense of like um having a lesson 29:49 plan 29:50 i'm saying more so of resources you know 29:52 that uh 29:54 i could use a printout or something of 29:56 the of the store without it being online 29:58 because the the research that i see 30:01 online 30:01 basically long story short i'm sorry the 30:03 question is i'm not being very clear 30:06 the question is i don't want to use um 30:09 electronics 30:11 as much because when i i use the 30:13 electronics for that my daughter to 30:15 you know learn her basics you know 30:18 they're afrocentric 30:19 nothing wrong with that i'm not trying 30:20 to try to be black but i'm more so 30:22 saying 30:23 lesson plans um that can work uh 30:26 along with you know how 30:30 i how our family is how she represents 30:32 herself how she sees herself 30:34 um you know even history lessons aside 30:36 from the books that i have you know 30:38 i i understand reading to your children 30:41 that doesn't have to be within a certain 30:43 grade level because 30:45 the more that you read just normal 30:47 adults 30:48 you know literature that's how they 30:50 grasp it you 30:51 i i hope i'm making myself clear with 30:53 that i've been very clear 30:57 i'm sorry how old is she um 31:00 she's not been to yet she's two months 31:02 away from two 31:04 so about nine i'm sorry 24 months so 31:07 she's 31:07 22 months i had nothing 31:10 so the second question i would ask you 31:13 is 31:14 what makes you think your daughter won't 31:15 want to learn when she's ready 31:18 so there's a like i always tell people 31:21 and 31:22 i will say this this isn't something 31:24 that people really understand 31:26 until they understand what learning 31:27 really is 31:29 i always tell people there was my 31:30 homeschooling journey before aquila 31:32 and it was my home scrolling journey 31:34 after aquila 31:36 your child a dog doesn't get taught to 31:39 bark 31:40 humans must learn to read we must learn 31:43 to write 31:44 we must learn how to communicate 31:46 effectively life is a teacher 31:48 it's a great teacher it's the best 31:50 teacher there's really it's really the 31:51 only teacher that there is 31:53 so i would say to you yes 31:56 one of the things i did with my children 31:58 when they were young is i 32:00 always played african-centered um 32:03 philosophers 32:04 scientists researchers whatever i could 32:06 find on youtube in the morning time when 32:08 they wake up i just play it 32:10 i always had some amos wilson some john 32:12 henrik clark some album vancertima 32:14 playing in the background 32:16 because i know that their minds you 32:18 cannot see or unhear anything every 32:20 thought has weight shape color 32:22 form and essence period 32:25 unfortunately we've gotten away from 32:28 understanding how people learn 32:30 people don't learn by force if i give 32:32 you a book to read right now and you 32:34 don't want to read it are you going to 32:36 read it 32:38 no you're not going to read it same 32:41 thing with your child 32:42 when your child let me tell you how my 32:45 sons learn how to read 32:46 video games 32:47 [Laughter] 32:50 they wanted to play the game they 32:53 couldn't understand the words 32:54 mom what's this word i don't know that 32:57 word 32:58 you got to figure that word out i can 32:59 help you with some phonetics 33:01 so i started taking the words and 33:03 putting them all around the house 33:04 on cards that's how they learned how to 33:08 read 33:08 and then i gave them the basic phonetics 33:11 what is phonetics 33:16 you want to learn the word you put the 33:18 arb together 33:20 you learn how to read the word we have 33:23 to understand 33:24 like me and jessica were talking about 33:26 all blackness right now 33:27 is reactionary to white supremacy 33:31 what are your roots if your children 33:33 were in an 33:34 african village right now how would they 33:38 learn they would learn by the rhythm 33:40 what is the rhythm of your household if 33:42 you want to change the way your children 33:44 learn change the rhythm of your 33:46 household 33:47 what does it mean when you wake up in 33:49 the morning what does it mean when it's 33:51 lunchtime 33:52 what do these things mean how do they 33:54 have connotation 33:55 in your everyday life that's how you 33:58 teach children 33:59 children learn how to act like their 34:02 parents by going with their parents 34:05 children's 34:06 impetus for learning is wanting to 34:08 become an adult 34:09 wanting to do the things that adults do 34:12 so if you want to teach a child 34:13 something 34:14 you teach them by doing it and not 34:17 shying them away 34:18 so like you said you don't need to read 34:21 childlike material to your children for 34:23 them to learn how to read you need to 34:25 just read to them 34:27 whatever it is whether it's a thomas the 34:29 train book 34:30 or whether it is the latest journal put 34:33 out by the american journal of medicine 34:35 they will learn because they'll hear it 34:37 the more they hear it 34:39 the more they they can speak english if 34:41 your child can speak english they can 34:42 read english it's just a matter of them 34:44 making the 34:45 my kids know about things like homonyms 34:47 and homophones even though i've never 34:49 taught them these things 34:51 they'll come to me and say oh mom why 34:53 come there and there is the same 34:55 and i'll say explain it to me i won't 34:58 tell them i'll say 34:59 explain it to me what do you mean well 35:00 some people say they're over there and 35:02 some people say like 35:03 this is theirs like what is that and 35:05 then i'll explain it to them and guess 35:07 how many times i have to explain it to 35:09 them 35:10 what why because the 35:13 impetus to learn was not on me 35:16 it was on them they wanted to learn it 35:19 so guess what's next 35:20 they learn it this is not 35:23 white people have made us think that 35:26 kids need to 35:27 sit in classrooms and i know lauren 35:29 knows because that little boy that came 35:31 to the learning co-op 35:33 i was like please don't put that baby in 35:35 school 35:36 because he is that baby's on fire 35:40 but we think that 35:43 we have to put our kids in these 35:45 classrooms 35:46 and get a chalkboard it's not true 35:50 and if you want to buy into it go ahead 35:52 you're going to make your life a lot 35:53 harder but it's not 35:54 true my son started reading books 35:57 because i just set 35:58 books out on the table and my youngest 36:01 son 36:01 still ain't gonna pick up no book he 36:03 hates books he'll tell anybody 36:05 i don't like to read but guess what he 36:08 like to do 36:09 play them damn video games so he's going 36:13 to learn to read 36:14 because he wants to do my my youngest 36:17 son is my most strong willed of all my 36:19 children 36:19 so he's the one that's constantly asking 36:22 questions he's the one that's constantly 36:24 bucking me so he's going to learn 36:27 because he doesn't want to ask anybody 36:29 else he wants to know so we think that 36:32 our children 36:33 for some reason no no no some reason 36:36 because of white supremacy because of 36:38 whiteness because of white people 36:39 normalizing 36:40 that they shouldn't have been 36:41 normalizing in the first place because 36:43 realistically you are the youngest 36:45 culture on the planet which means y'all 36:47 have a lot to learn 36:50 very well said not what you think is 36:54 real 36:55 is not real until you i will use the 36:57 words of john henrik clarke 36:58 until you understand white supremacy 37:02 everything you think you understand will 37:04 only confuse you 37:06 it will only confuse you because you've 37:10 allowed the people 37:11 who are the children of the earth to 37:14 teach you 37:14 how to teach your kids you've allowed 37:18 the 37:18 inmates to run the asylum and it ain't 37:21 real 37:23 we got to wake up we keep snapping our 37:26 fingers but we won't wake up this 37:28 is not real this is the matrix you have 37:31 to wake up to your original self 37:35 that muffy so let me ask you then fran i 37:38 think someone had a question 37:40 oh had her hand raised crystal i don't 37:42 know but 37:43 first ebony i want to uplift you for 37:45 asking that question 37:47 because i know absolutely somebody who 37:49 is you know i feel like our our children 37:51 are around the same age 37:53 and and um it is hard to navigate this 37:55 moment 37:56 and so i just want to take a moment to 37:58 uplift you for being wise enough to 38:00 think 38:01 already about how you are starting to 38:03 lay 38:04 a foundation to welcome education into 38:07 your child's home 38:08 and environment and thank you for being 38:10 vulnerable enough in this space 38:12 to ask that question so thank you for 38:14 that 38:16 and thank you because i'm not soft 38:19 that's 38:19 i tend to be very just i'm not i 38:30 think it goes back to apologize 38:31 insecurity because just just what you 38:33 said as far as this reality isn't real 38:35 this timeline all of this i 38:37 i 100 agree and i'm learning i'm 24 38:40 years old so there's a lot more for me 38:42 to learn 38:43 but it's that last bit of like that also 38:46 goes for the education 38:47 like i do i felt pressure of um you know 38:50 i had the little 38:51 alphabets on the wall which is nothing 38:53 wrong with that but again 38:55 i don't have to force something allow it 38:57 to be and 38:58 just do like you said so that's that's 39:00 very uh 39:01 i take that to the heart and evan you 39:04 will be surprised when your child is 39:06 ready for structured learning 39:08 he will come to you especially you got 39:10 girls girl 39:12 that girl she's gonna be so far beyond 39:14 and when she's ready for structured 39:16 learning she will let you know 39:18 she wants more structured learning and 39:20 they the 39:21 thing is some kids are here for 39:23 structured learning and some kids need 39:25 independence in their learning it's 39:27 dependent upon the child it's not 39:29 dependent upon the system 39:31 so really what your job is is to pay 39:33 attention to your child 39:35 and as you do that and you're younger 39:37 than me 39:38 thinking about these things so you're 39:40 going to be 10 times better than i am 39:42 and that's the beauty of this moment 39:44 is that we have mothers and fathers who 39:46 are in their 20s who are asking these 39:48 questions it took me until i was 32 39:51 to start asking these questions so you 39:54 know 39:54 just be confident in yourself and 39:56 whatever your intuition says 39:58 if your intuition says to you and then 40:00 you can go on my website brownmamas.com 40:02 there is a whole list of curriculums and 40:04 whatnot for africa african center 40:06 curriculums and all of that is on there 40:08 so if you're looking for you know stuff 40:10 that you can start to use stuff you can 40:12 start to play for her 40:13 because there's nothing wrong with that 40:15 but what i want you to get out of 40:17 is i want you to get out of this feeling 40:19 that you're doing something wrong sis 40:21 because you're not you're not doing 40:24 nothing wrong 40:25 you are doing what a mother is supposed 40:27 to do you are nurturing you are caring 40:30 you are protecting you're being the 40:31 mother bear 40:32 you're doing your job don't let this 40:35 world trick you into thinking your child 40:36 is supposed to be five years old and 40:38 they supposed to be a rhodes scholar 40:40 because a rhodes scholar ain't nobody 40:41 but somebody that went over to africa 40:43 and stole a whole bunch of and 40:44 raped and 40:45 pillaged anyway so let's be 40:48 mindful of what we are following when we 40:52 are 40:52 following these american education 40:54 trends 40:56 no when somebody says something to you 40:58 when somebody tells you you're supposed 41:00 to do something 41:02 look it up first figure out what is what 41:04 was the impetus for that thing when 41:06 somebody tells you your child 41:08 should sing should uh know how to read 41:10 by the time they're five 41:12 who said that my child didn't read till 41:14 he was eight 41:16 and he's an awesome reader now who told 41:19 you that 41:20 why is that the truth because a lot of 41:23 times this stuff is not based on reality 41:26 it's based on some figment some 41:27 imaginative thing 41:29 that somebody else dreamed up under the 41:32 guise of a threatening imperialistic 41:34 system 41:34 that is not real 41:38 hey muffy i have a question kind of 41:42 going off of what you've been talking 41:43 about i don't want to uh 41:46 ignore crystal oh sorry and before 41:49 um i'm sorry to cut you off amy but 41:51 crystal i want to uplift you if you had 41:53 a question still 41:54 you could ask it 41:58 hi crystal okay can you hear me 42:02 yeah yeah yep okay hi 42:05 my name is crystal and i just wanted to 42:07 add on to what um 42:09 ebony was asking about um as far as 42:12 like what kind of material can she kind 42:14 of present to her 42:16 her daughter so i'm a mom of three boys 42:19 um one and a half um five 42:22 and three and to be honest i started 42:26 sorry i started with my five-year-old 42:29 when he was maybe 42:30 two around the same age that ebony 42:33 actually started 42:34 and i was in the same book she was in i 42:36 didn't have the mindset of 42:37 um i went to homeschool when i first 42:39 started 42:40 but i read a book and it was pretty much 42:43 saying 42:44 everything that she said right now she 42:46 was saying like we have to take control 42:47 of our own children 42:48 we can't allow someone else to teach our 42:50 kids and my husband's like 42:52 um so you might as well think we're 42:54 playing so that's what started me on the 42:56 journey of homeschooling and 42:58 what i've noticed from now from my 43:00 five-year-old and my two year well he's 43:01 three now with my two and a half year 43:03 old is 43:04 i was lost in the beginning so what i 43:06 thought would be helpful was to give him 43:09 games at that time because i stressed 43:11 myself out with my 43:13 my five-year-old when i first started 43:14 off so i give him like small games and 43:16 this was something that um i created and 43:18 i know in the beginning 43:19 you said he was an artist yourself um so 43:21 i was thinking what about you creating 43:23 something um 43:24 so just hear something like as far as um 43:28 bingo abc and it's something it's 43:30 something small but in the long run it 43:32 makes a 43:32 really really big impression on your 43:35 child so my 43:36 three-year-old when i started with him 43:39 around the same age i started my 43:40 five-year-old was around two 43:42 i was personally frustrated but i had to 43:45 stop and remind myself where my 43:47 five-year-old was when he was his age 43:49 and with you having your first baby girl 43:51 you're like 43:52 you're stressing yourself out i can only 43:54 imagine because that's how it was with 43:55 my five-year-old son 43:56 but as time went on um he caught on and 43:59 he did amazing things 44:00 and now my three-year-old when i started 44:02 him at two-year-old 44:03 i was like well i have to remember where 44:05 i was my five-year-old and 44:07 right now he's uh three and he's doing 44:09 amazing been able to identify 44:12 letters and numbers but the thing is 44:14 that we we have to be patient just know 44:16 that 44:17 it's gonna come um the same thing that 44:18 she was saying but just don't stress 44:20 yourself 44:20 out that's my biggest advice that i just 44:22 want to share with you just don't stress 44:24 stuff out know that when she gets there 44:26 you'll be oppressed and she's gonna keep 44:28 moving and continue to oppress you but 44:30 that's all i want to share 44:32 it's just maybe creating something thank 44:36 you 44:37 i really appreciate that tara you're 44:39 kind of quiet over there i wonder 44:41 if you have any perspective about um 44:45 how your kids are approaching education 44:48 what 44:48 what kind of opportunities you might 44:50 have created for them in an early age 44:54 let me um mute you tara 44:59 um i was really looking forward to 45:02 [Music] 45:03 hearing how muffy approaches education 45:06 because i know when we talked earlier i 45:08 took in a lot of her perspective 45:11 and i feel like i view education now 45:15 very casually because we're doing home 45:17 school 45:18 you know it's a pandemic my ten-year-old 45:21 tends to stress about like 45:22 late assignments and being present and 45:25 things like that 45:26 and i'm just kind of like you're in our 45:29 home 45:30 like nobody's gonna check you in my 45:32 house like 45:33 if you're missing assignments that's 45:35 acceptable because we're in a pandemic 45:37 like 45:38 i'll have days with her where i'm like 45:40 hey leave class early like let's 45:42 go for a walk let's get ice cream you 45:44 know things like that 45:45 and i don't want to feel any guilt 45:47 around that because i feel like now more 45:49 than ever 45:50 it's very acceptable my five-year-old 45:53 misses class a lot but that's because 45:55 she transferred from private school 45:57 back to pittsburgh public so she's doing 46:00 pre-k 46:00 through the children's museum which is a 46:02 great program but it's a program that 46:04 functions much better in person 46:06 and my five-year-old is much more 46:08 advanced than the other kids 46:10 and has done her entire workbook so she 46:13 wants to sleep in 46:14 you know i'm not pressed if there's an 46:15 assignment they want her to do 46:17 i'll put her on the call like show her 46:19 little assignment and it's 46:21 a lot different than the views i used to 46:23 have as far as education like 46:25 by nature my 10 year old has always been 46:27 like super attentive like 46:28 she's made high honor roll very 46:30 consistently until now 46:32 since covet hit my five year old was at 46:35 ellis and i had a lot of difficulty 46:37 and muffy as far as what you were saying 46:39 about insecurity like that resonated so 46:42 deeply with me because i was incredibly 46:44 insecure 46:45 about her going to private school she 46:47 was going to ellis and you know ellis 46:49 was a great school she loved ellis 46:51 i have a lot of guilt because she wants 46:53 to go back to ellis and 46:55 unfortunately like it wasn't affordable 46:58 um 46:58 and especially you know not now with 47:01 everything being so uncertain 47:03 um so we de-enrolled her and she did 47:05 gain a lot 47:06 as far as confidence and you know social 47:09 interactions 47:10 but i had a difficult time because i'm 47:12 not like those ellis moms 47:14 even you know the other black mothers 47:16 that went to ellis they all have really 47:17 nice jobs they all present a lot 47:20 differently than i do 47:21 like when neon started alice i was 47:23 working like at a sneaker boutique you 47:25 know i don't i don't have a career i'm 47:27 not 47:28 established like i'm still on food 47:30 stamps you know 47:31 so there was my insecurity because of 47:34 that 47:35 and there was the insecurity of just 47:37 like 47:38 like i already have difficulty with my 47:40 girls because my oldest has a white 47:42 father and is white presenting and my 47:43 youngest has a black father and you know 47:45 is very brown 47:46 so like you have to empower them in 47:48 different ways like i have to teach my 47:50 oldest about privilege i have to teach 47:52 her about 47:53 you know being an advocate for her 47:54 younger sister and 47:56 my youngest i have to you know tell her 47:58 all the time how beautiful her hair is 48:00 how beautiful her skin is 48:01 because nobody else is going to tell her 48:03 that and i worry 48:04 so much about her at ellis like wanting 48:07 to kind of assimilate 48:08 and i used to tell my partner like what 48:10 if she wants to 48:11 you know look white what if she wants 48:13 straight hair like i don't want that for 48:15 her 48:15 and i got good advice from her 48:17 grandmother as far as like you know 48:19 she's going to take in the most at home 48:21 so at home if you're reinforcing these 48:23 things 48:24 then she's not going to go to school and 48:26 want to present any differently 48:28 but it was also like being a part of the 48:32 parents of students of color group that 48:34 was difficult for me because i think 48:36 people of color it's a dismissive term 48:38 like 48:39 my presence in that group was to 48:41 advocate for my black daughter 48:43 like there's no person of color like my 48:45 daughter's black i had conflict with 48:47 other parents because they would be 48:48 advocating on behalf of their kids 48:50 and throwing around this terminology 48:51 that i was uncomfortable with and then 48:53 like nobody else would agree 48:55 i had like an older guy who's like well 48:57 i study philosophy so i understand words 48:59 and i just 48:59 i want to understand like what your 49:01 issue is with person of color 49:02 and i'm like it's very simple like my 49:04 child's not a personal color my child is 49:05 black 49:06 i don't want like people of color in 49:08 leadership roles i want black people in 49:10 leadership roles 49:11 within this institution so i don't have 49:13 to be nervous 49:14 around like how my child is being 49:16 treated how people are reacting to 49:18 certain things 49:19 and like the conflicts made me remove 49:22 myself from the parent group 49:24 and like i know so much of it was rooted 49:26 in like my insecurity 49:28 based on myself and my own lived 49:30 experiences because like 49:32 when i moved to pittsburgh i started 49:34 attending a white school which was not 49:35 the norm like i grew up in western new 49:37 york and 49:38 there was a heavily black and hispanic 49:39 population so white people were the 49:41 minority 49:42 so to come here and have that level of 49:44 culture shock like i didn't want that 49:46 for my daughter 49:47 like i had experiences where people were 49:49 outright racist 49:50 towards me and that was just the norm 49:52 and like i did not want that for her 49:54 and i'm not going to speak ill of ellis 49:56 because like i know they were doing the 49:57 best 49:58 that they can and a lot of their 50:00 structure 50:02 isn't necessarily rooted in white 50:04 supremacy because they believe 50:05 in you know a less structured education 50:08 and but at the root of it all like it's 50:11 all white people that run the school 50:12 it's all white teachers she did have a 50:14 black teacher who was lovely and is now 50:15 like the director of diversity 50:17 for that school which is great we really 50:19 liked her but it's like is that it 50:21 is that all we get like it's always just 50:23 like here you go you get a black 50:25 diversity and inclusion teacher you know 50:26 be okay with that 50:28 and yeah with that said i had a rough 50:30 experience with that um 50:32 and since covet and like adapting to 50:34 homeschooling 50:35 again i view education in a much more 50:37 relaxed way 50:39 but i'm trying to learn how to like be 50:41 more present for them 50:43 because i'm not so great at that i'm a 50:45 good like overseer i'm a good like 50:47 helper but like 50:48 i don't know what i could be doing more 50:51 i know i've had 50:52 talks more often with my ten-year-old 50:54 because she'll have 50:55 questions that i feel like 50:59 like i can give an example she had a 51:00 question on a worksheet yesterday and it 51:02 was like 51:03 oh a supermarket moves into a 51:05 neighborhood and 51:07 what does the neighborhood need like 51:08 something like that and she's like i 51:10 don't understand this question 51:11 and i'm like well this question omits a 51:13 lot because the supermarket moves into 51:14 the community 51:15 who had to be displaced for that 51:17 supermarket to come in is the 51:18 supermarket affordable 51:20 is it accessible to people with you know 51:22 low socioeconomic circumstances like 51:25 there are so many other things like it 51:26 becomes so nuanced and multi-layered and 51:28 i was talking to her about it 51:30 and she's like you're right and like i 51:31 don't like this assignment and 51:33 similarly like they had questions about 51:36 like nutrition and i'm like well there's 51:37 a lot of racism rooted in 51:39 this whole idea of clean eating and 51:41 nutrition and it's like 51:42 accessibility is a factor you know they 51:44 want you to eat a lot of fruits and 51:46 vegetables 51:46 those things aren't necessarily filling 51:48 so you have to have a very particular 51:49 budget 51:50 in order to buy enough and consume 51:52 enough to be filling a lot of people 51:53 can't afford to do that 51:54 and then it's like you have a lot of 51:56 one-parent households where the primary 51:58 caretaker has to work 51:59 and meals have to be quick they have to 52:01 be efficient and like my daughter gets 52:03 it and she can absorb these 52:04 conversations like 52:05 okay is this enough though like is she 52:07 gonna keep all this with her like 52:10 am i just like throwing empty words at 52:12 her that like she's gonna remember in 52:14 the moment and then forget about later 52:15 and like i don't know so i'm a bit all 52:18 over the place 52:19 who are you seeking approval for or from 52:22 or what is it that's making you wonder 52:25 if it's enough do you feel like you're 52:27 not giving enough or do you feel like 52:29 you want to give 52:30 more because there's two different 52:31 perspectives here 52:33 um you're telling me 52:36 you're saying that you're doing all of 52:39 these things for your daughter 52:41 but then you're questioning yourself and 52:43 saying 52:45 am i doing enough um 52:48 it's to me there's a disconnect in that 52:50 because you are already 52:52 doing so much explaining to your tanner 52:55 five-year-old 52:56 complex um socio-economic 53:01 issues that we have so 53:04 i i guess what i'm trying to say is we 53:07 as mothers we're constantly 53:08 questioning ourselves whether we're 53:10 doing enough or whether we're 53:12 good enough for our children and um 53:17 what's what's it gonna take for us 53:20 to stop questioning that to to give to 53:23 finally be able to record 53:25 recognize or say ourselves and say you 53:27 know what i'm doing great for my kids 53:29 but i just want to do more instead of 53:32 saying 53:32 am i doing enough you know there the 53:35 different framing 53:36 of that um and i think 53:40 um it has a lot to do with the way 53:44 capitalism is the way that white 53:46 supremacy is there's always these 53:48 things that are imposed on us um 53:52 and it it i would have wanted to be in 53:54 that 53:55 i would have wanted you to talk to my 53:56 kids 53:58 you know things like that and i and i 54:00 think that's great that you can have 54:01 such 54:02 uh deep and profound and meaningful 54:06 relevant conversations with your 10 year 54:08 old you're 54:10 doing fantastic um and 54:13 i i don't you know it's it's just 54:16 to see that somebody as powerful and as 54:20 incredible as you still questioning 54:25 what does that say about us 54:29 as women and as mothers um 54:32 i don't know i'm just i'm a guess i'm 54:34 putting that question out to everyone 54:37 i think it says that we need help and i 54:40 think we have to recognize 54:41 that we are asking prior to 54:46 american individualism and capitalism 54:48 kind of taking over the world and it 54:50 still 54:51 exists in many societies outside of 54:54 america 54:55 we're asking two or one or two people to 54:58 do a job that is normally done 55:00 by a community and it's not 55:04 enough we have to be honest with 55:07 ourselves and say 55:08 it's not enough to put the entire 55:12 impetus for another person 55:14 on one person or on two people it's not 55:17 enough 55:18 we need to get back to intergenerational 55:21 intercommunal 55:22 living where a neighbor comes to your 55:25 house and fills in because you're 55:27 i mean you just have to understand the 55:29 human condition in terms of what does it 55:31 mean to be one human what does it mean 55:33 to be a singular human 55:35 and the reality is it doesn't mean very 55:37 much 55:38 because you have all of these areas 55:40 where you are strong but then you have 55:42 tons of areas where you are weak 55:45 and you are never going to get better in 55:47 some of those areas you will remain 55:49 weak in those areas until the day you 55:51 die but that is why 55:54 you know indigenously in more in our 55:57 more 55:58 antiquities past people raise 56:01 children in groups a child 56:04 was born with a mother a grandmother a 56:07 godmother an 56:08 auntie and godmother auntie and 56:10 grandmother were just as much 56:12 mama as mama was so i think we have to 56:15 recognize the ways in which 56:17 capitalism individualism imperialism 56:21 have kind of wrecked that family 56:23 structure that's really necessary and 56:25 needed for children to thrive 56:27 and as individuals we have to really 56:29 stop thinking that we can do it all 56:31 because we can 56:32 so whereas tara might be great at having 56:35 conversations with her daughter 56:37 about these bigger social movements 56:39 because maybe she's a person who sees 56:40 eagles she's a person who sees you know 56:43 things from an eagle's eye view 56:45 maybe there could have been an auntie 56:47 who's really good at the details 56:49 who's really good at making sure you 56:51 know you have a cut in your sandwich at 56:53 lunchtime 56:54 i'm not good at that i'm never going to 56:56 be good at that you know that's just 56:58 not realistic for me so i think we have 57:00 to start building these villages and 57:02 being realistic about what 57:04 one person has to bring to the village 57:07 like and especially i feel like with the 57:10 older generations i feel like we're 57:11 finally in a place 57:13 where millennials in particular are 57:15 asking for help 57:16 and a lot of times we're being told by 57:18 the older generations to do it ourselves 57:20 and we're like no i'm being honest with 57:23 you i need help i can't do this by 57:25 myself it feels impossible 57:27 and they're telling us no you need to 57:30 figure out how to do it by yourself but 57:32 beyond the reality is is what we should 57:34 be doing for our children 57:36 is building those villages and also 57:38 making sure 57:40 that they understand they can ask us for 57:42 help and that we will be there 57:44 to help because it's not realistic and i 57:47 think 57:48 what tara is feeling what i can say i 57:51 feel on a daily basis also tara the 57:54 same exact way that you feel which i'm 57:56 sure a lot of moms on here can say they 57:58 feel that way 57:59 is normal is normally what you would 58:01 feel 58:02 in a society that tells you only two 58:05 people are supposed to live 58:07 and spearhead a household that's not 58:10 real 58:10 that's why they had sister wives 58:12 everybody wants to think about that from 58:14 a sexual perspective but nobody wants to 58:16 think about it 58:17 from a perspective of business and 58:20 ethics and work 58:21 and how did why did five women 58:24 live in a compound with one man because 58:27 those five women were utilizing each 58:29 other's collective consciousness skill 58:31 sets abilities 58:32 to raise all of the children up so that 58:35 it wasn't a situation where 58:36 weeds are strangling out flowers but 58:38 where there are several people who can 58:40 tend to the weeds 58:42 so everybody gets to be a beautiful 58:43 flower so i think we have to really go 58:46 back and 58:46 reimagine some of these things that you 58:49 know about monogamy 58:50 and the way in which we are raising our 58:53 children is insane 58:55 it just doesn't make sense but because 58:58 america has created this 59:00 oh this is what looks clean and white 59:02 and pure 59:04 and this is what it is in the fence and 59:06 the two people 59:07 and they look happy but ain't happy 59:09 in a household 59:11 they look happy when they come out to 59:13 take the picture when is you're looking 59:15 at their household 59:16 nothing's really happy so 59:19 let's go back to leave it to beaver and 59:21 let's be honest 59:23 about what lever to beaver probably 59:25 looked like inside the house 59:26 when mom is home all day and she's bored 59:29 and she's smoking chain smoking 59:31 cigarettes 59:32 why like why is that happening 59:35 but how do we begin to unlearn these 59:38 things and like how do we decolonize 59:40 because even now like i know like as 59:42 much as i'm against 59:43 capitalism i still function in a way 59:46 that's capitalistic you know i like nice 59:48 things because i grew up 59:49 not having nice things and now it's like 59:52 all right i have a little bit of access 59:53 i can 59:54 have like cool clothes and cool shoes 59:56 and i know i impart that on my kids in 59:58 some capacity 59:59 because again since i had so little i 60:02 always want them to have the newest 60:03 gadgets so it's like 60:04 my daughter has ipads she has a switch 60:06 you know we have all that and like i 60:09 know 60:10 it's not healthy and then it's also 60:13 like they'll ask me like well why do we 60:15 have to go to school and i'm like 60:16 because 60:17 you need to go to college you need to 60:18 get a good job so you guys will be able 60:19 to take care of each other 60:21 and i don't want to reinforce that 60:22 capitalistic mindset but i also don't 60:25 want them to have to struggle so like 60:28 what's the medium the medium is 60:32 my dad would always say this to me when 60:33 i was younger 60:35 and i would always be like that's not 60:37 the answer but the reality is it's true 60:40 you have to negate you can't 60:43 we want to find the easy answer because 60:45 we're american but the reality is 60:48 it's not an easy answer you have to 60:50 negate 60:52 and you have to do it this is the thing 60:54 you got to recognize 60:56 that to be human means 60:59 you are immortal you will live on 61:02 through your children 61:03 you will live on through generations so 61:05 you can only do a little bit at a time 61:07 you can't do it all at one time y'all 61:10 so yeah you're gonna buy the switch 61:13 because the switch is the difference 61:14 between the badass kids outside that 61:16 might get shot or sell drugs and 61:19 and the house bad kids the kids who's 61:21 just house bad like they just do bad 61:22 stuff in the house but they don't go 61:24 outside and do no bad stuff so you gotta 61:26 buy this question 61:27 you have to like you don't have a choice 61:29 but to buy the switch 61:30 but in those other areas where you know 61:34 like wasting food like getting smart 61:37 with 61:37 the adults in the room you got to start 61:40 to go back to some of those old ways 61:42 but removing the shame removing the 61:46 i don't tell nobody what's going on in 61:47 my house removing the big mama syndrome 61:50 i'm not a lot 61:50 allowed to ask for help so we have to 61:52 start to negate 61:54 that's just the reality of it that's the 61:56 only way to get rid of capitalism and 61:58 white supremacy is to negate 62:00 to learn how to live off of the fact 62:02 that a capitalist society creates access 62:04 everywhere because it is inherently 62:07 greedy 62:08 so how do you live off the access so 62:10 maybe instead of going 62:12 to best buy and getting that switch 62:13 brand new you go on ebay and buy it 62:15 and you teach your kids how to go on 62:17 ebay and buy it because that helps them 62:19 to recognize 62:20 they don't have to always be gratified 62:22 at every moment they can delay 62:23 gratification 62:24 in order to have a better output later 62:27 so it's really about negating 62:29 in as many small ways as you can but 62:31 maintaining your lifestyle 62:33 because lifestyle is important if the 62:36 kids struggle too much guess what they 62:38 ain't gonna want to have nothing to do 62:39 with nothing you did before 62:41 so it's small steps we want to think 62:45 because of american his 62:46 because of being american we want to 62:47 think it's this big thing it's not 62:50 get a garden start growing some food 62:53 guess what happens two or three 62:55 centuries from now somebody might want 62:56 to be a farmer 62:58 that's a full negation if i can grow my 63:01 own food and 63:02 chop my own cows and that's a full 63:04 negation 63:06 but you have to get there little by 63:08 little by little it's not gonna happen 63:09 overnight 63:10 so tara you're doing a great job in 63:14 those small areas where you notice 63:16 i could be a little bit closer to my 63:18 indigenous ancestors if i just 63:21 nicked a little bit off right here 63:23 that's how we get back but we're not 63:25 going to get back if we keep putting so 63:27 much 63:27 pressure on ourselves like oh i want to 63:31 be mother of the force by next year 63:32 not going to happen that's not real i 63:34 like etsy 63:35 etsy's going to get a certain percentage 63:37 of my paycheck every time because i just 63:39 like them 63:39 so it is what it is saying it is what it 63:42 is so we have to negate 63:44 and we can't ignore the need for 63:47 institution building and structure 63:49 because there is like we have to build 63:51 institutions and a big part of building 63:53 institutions is building structure but 63:55 it's almost like that thing we have to 63:57 destroy and rebuild 63:59 so it's like this constant 64:02 transformation that we have to undergo 64:04 the difference between the capitalist 64:06 transformation 64:07 and the transformation back to being a 64:09 little bit more holistically human is 64:12 that 64:12 the capitalist transformation is transf 64:15 transformation toward 64:16 excess transformation toward more 64:19 transfer more 64:20 nation towards having encompassing 64:22 collecting 64:23 we want to start to transform in the 64:26 reverse way 64:27 a little bit at a time i don't know 64:31 i wrote some stuff down but i wrote some 64:33 stuff down and notes and preparation for 64:35 this conversation i think this is the 64:37 time 64:37 to share them uh muffy i think that was 64:39 a great segue 64:40 liberation is both a dismantling project 64:43 and a building project 64:45 we have to make our own tools if we are 64:47 to bring the house down 64:49 using the master's tools leads to a 64:51 reproduction of the same quote mastery 64:55 raising children with the hopes that 64:57 their dreams 64:58 will not reflect the death of ours i 65:01 don't know when i wrote that but i was 65:02 like oh this is 65:04 that's deep jessica i don't know they 65:05 came together at once 65:07 but they were somewhere and i was like i 65:09 gotta talk about this 65:11 [Music] 65:13 because i think this is it you know what 65:14 is it uh audrey lord right my lord and 65:17 savior um the the oppressed 65:21 cannot be responsible for teaching the 65:24 oppressor 65:25 how to unoppressed people that doesn't 65:28 this doesn't make sense 65:29 and we can't expect the oppressor to 65:32 ever do that work it's just 65:33 it's never going to happen the the 65:36 change that 65:36 muffy you're so eloquently defining will 65:39 only happen if it's through 65:40 us and with us this is why i said you 65:43 know earlier when i was like i don't 65:44 give a what y'all think 65:46 when we are talking about white people 65:47 and white accountability 65:49 is because i'm no longer i am so 65:52 rooted in creating our own spaces doing 65:55 stuff that is just for us 65:56 i'm building black spaces for black 65:58 people for black women for black mothers 66:01 y'all can do that every other funky 66:02 stuff over here and we can 66:04 we can exist you know like we can 66:07 coexist 66:08 but what i'm focused on is not your 66:09 apology because i'm gonna be waiting 66:11 until 66:12 the cows come home you to say sorry for 66:15 me 66:15 if i'm gonna wait for the check to come 66:17 in the mail it's never gonna come 66:19 i'm gonna be dead and gone it's gonna be 66:21 my max's grandkids right are gonna be 66:23 still waiting for a check to arrive in 66:25 here on my books 66:26 i don't got time for that i am seriously 66:29 focused on what can i 66:31 jessica me with the tools that i have 66:33 and the knowledge and experience that i 66:35 have 66:35 build with my own hands for my own 66:38 people that's why i love that 66:40 that metaphor you said about the garden 66:42 even if it's the smallest thing 66:44 you know a civil shrine which tara is a 66:46 part of and lauren on this call this 66:47 residency for black moms in pittsburgh 66:50 i was on a call with with some uh i 66:53 can't remember who said it but on one of 66:55 our classes it was about gardening and 66:58 one of the mom said food is free 67:00 and that radicalized my whole i was 67:02 like food is 67:03 free food is free 67:06 why do i have to what i have to i go to 67:09 the grocery store and i'm like 67:10 this is stupid swipe my card 67:15 that's how i feel about foraging you 67:16 know foraging is only illegal 67:18 because it was a way to prevent black 67:20 and indigenous populations from getting 67:22 free food 67:23 like you can't just openly go and forage 67:26 you have to be very careful about it and 67:28 it's like this grows on trees i 67:29 can't just take it but it doesn't work 67:31 that way 67:33 but maybe if we grow our own trees tara 67:36 in our own communities 67:37 as villages with our mamas and our 67:40 aunties and our grandmas and our sisters 67:41 then it does work that way because we're 67:43 the ones who make the rules 67:45 and it's not about paying for the 67:46 oranges when the oranges fall over the 67:48 fence line it's about there's no fences 67:51 yep and i think 67:54 what we have to well we don't have to do 67:56 this 67:57 but what we want to do in terms of 67:59 collaboration 68:00 and i think what white folks have to 68:03 understand is 68:04 it's not that we don't want to 68:05 collaborate we want to collaborate on an 68:07 even 68:08 playing field equity we don't want you 68:10 to give us anything 68:11 and we don't want you to take anything 68:14 we just want to come to the table with 68:16 our 68:16 own so that when we come to the 68:19 table 68:20 we can talk eye to eye because right now 68:22 when black people are at white tables 68:24 it's not eye to eye 68:26 i can't talk to you out of eye when you 68:28 own everything and i'm taking your 68:29 crumbs 68:30 that's not possible i can't talk to you 68:33 eye to eye 68:34 it doesn't exist it's not real 68:37 and they get mad when we're like 68:41 militant because you want to have a 68:43 conversation with me 68:45 about real that affects my children 68:48 and the people in my community in real 68:50 ways but 68:50 i can't even bring anything to the table 68:54 this is not fair it's not fair it's not 68:57 acceptable 68:58 and i'm the type of person that i'd 69:00 rather not participate at all 69:02 if i can't come to the table evenly with 69:05 you i'd rather work on becoming even an 69:08 equal because at the end of the day what 69:09 white people have to realize is you're 69:11 doing yourself a disservice 69:13 by not having me come to the table 69:15 equally 69:17 because i am earth 69:21 because black women when everybody wins 69:25 until we start uplifting black women 69:28 will everybody win 69:29 that's that's this tension and you don't 69:32 need any proof 69:33 from that other than the fact 69:37 that we haven't tried to kill y'all 69:40 let's just keep it 100 that's the only 69:43 proof you need 69:46 we stepped off those plantations and did 69:48 not try to kill y'all 69:50 what did we want equality which means 69:53 what not only were we looking out for 69:55 ourselves 69:56 but we were looking out for you because 69:59 we could have stepped off those 70:01 plantations and murdered everybody 70:05 it's all we've ever asked for 70:08 i think about the riots that just 70:09 happened the terrorism that just 70:11 happened at the capitol 70:12 that imagery of seeing that black cop so 70:15 respectfully 70:17 move back tree people you know like this 70:19 you got that gun on you this is your 70:21 chance 70:23 this is your chance but so respectfully 70:27 you know like made space like almost 70:30 like 70:32 like accept it i can't even imagine all 70:35 the things that were going through his 70:36 mind in that moment 70:37 but like if it was reversed we know what 70:40 would have happened 70:42 you know with without a doubt yes 70:43 completely with his life in danger 70:46 and that was the choice and that's how 70:47 you move through with peace and grace 70:50 and that is it is not reciprocal that is 70:53 never exchanged 70:55 and i do want to point out that movement 70:57 capoeira had said that 71:00 he he or she said oh we have a couple he 71:03 she or they said oh we have a couple of 71:04 times and we have 71:06 but i think it is very telling of the 71:09 black persona 71:10 of the black essence and way of being 71:13 that we are primarily peaceful people we 71:16 want 71:16 peace for everyone um but we have 71:20 we have many times there have been many 71:23 birth of the nations 71:25 on american soil so i think we have to 71:28 you know recognize that but also 71:31 i mean i don't even want to say what 71:33 white folks owe us at this point 71:35 but just know that to 71:40 uplift us to simply 71:44 not help us but not hinder 71:48 is going to help the entire human 71:50 experience 71:51 because that is what we seek we are 71:54 people of earth we are people of um 71:58 element we are an original people 72:03 all we need to do is grow in order for 72:05 everything else to grow 72:06 beautifully around us and so i think we 72:09 have to 72:11 for black folks is really just about us 72:13 getting back to our 72:14 roots and and really honestly no longer 72:18 being in participation and i think the 72:21 less we 72:22 participate in a society that is 72:24 systematically 72:25 and consistently trying to root us out 72:30 you know the further will we we will get 72:33 in our objective 72:34 to be able to sit at a table with the 72:36 other cultures of the world with the 72:38 other peoples of the world 72:40 and actually be even but i think that is 72:43 going to take a lot of 72:44 discomfort on our part because it took a 72:47 lot of discomfort for us to get in the 72:49 position that we 72:50 are in right now so we have to expect an 72:53 equal or greater amount of discomfort 72:57 to get back to the place where we can 72:59 have an even playing field because i 73:01 always like to bring these conversations 73:04 absolutely discomfort the word of the 73:05 year yeah you may never lie 73:08 um i think we have to recognize that 73:11 this it's not like that never existed 73:15 before 73:16 and i think i think ebony had left but 73:19 that was one 73:20 that was what i was trying to say in 73:22 terms of recognizing there's nothing 73:24 wrong with you 73:25 recognizing that we've done this before 73:29 it's really just about remembrance but 73:31 it's difficult 73:32 hey ebony oh you changed your name okay 73:35 cool 73:36 um it's really about remembrance but you 73:40 can't 73:41 it's almost like when you watch those 73:42 movies and the character has amnesia but 73:46 it takes for him to be in a familiar 73:48 setting to remember 73:50 and we haven't gotten back to that 73:52 familiar setting 73:53 one of the things that i do every year 73:56 that i know my ancestors used to do was 73:58 make the ascension 74:00 so the ascension is when the weather 74:02 gets at its height 74:04 you go outside and you put your feet on 74:06 the ground and you 74:07 it's sun above sun in the middle sun 74:09 below 74:10 and you make the ascension and we have 74:13 to get back to doing these practices we 74:16 have to stop being afraid to be 74:18 black to be us to be african 74:23 and when we get to that point we will 74:25 remember who we are 74:26 and then when we remember who we are 74:29 there won't 74:30 there will be no such thing as needing 74:32 to come to the table in equality 74:35 because we'll just take our seat it's 74:37 just a matter of taking back then what 74:39 is yours 74:40 so i think we have to the impetus for 74:42 the work honestly if i'm being honest 74:45 from my perspective is not on white 74:46 folks 74:47 they have their own work to do within 74:49 their own communities which is evidenced 74:51 by what just happened 74:52 you know last week that's their work to 74:55 do 74:56 because that community is just all kinds 74:59 of 75:03 we got our own work to do because 75:04 reality is is that we've been living 75:06 under white folks for a very long time 75:10 so we brought our own dysfunction to the 75:12 table let's be very real on that 75:14 black people played a major role in our 75:16 own demise and then we 75:17 also coupled on their dysfunction and so 75:20 now we 75:21 just have a big ass ball of dysfunction 75:24 that we have to deal with but we have to 75:26 in many ways 75:28 a lot of people say well do you believe 75:29 in segregation and i say yes for a time 75:32 segregation is sometimes necessary it's 75:35 no different than 75:36 if a person is trying to heal like when 75:38 a person goes to rehab 75:40 they don't go to rehab you know with 75:42 people who are clean 75:44 they go to rehab with other addicts same 75:47 attracts same 75:48 like attracts like and then through 75:50 those common experiences through the 75:52 sharing of the dysfunction 75:54 we're able to almost be a mirror for 75:56 each other see the problems and then be 75:58 able to fix them 75:59 and it's the same thing with what needs 76:01 to happen with white folks they need to 76:03 go into their own space and tear up 76:04 their own 76:05 so that they can start to see the 76:07 dysfunction that exists in their own 76:08 community and recognize it's tearing 76:10 them down 76:11 from the bottom up and black people need 76:14 to do the same thing 76:15 every culture needs to do it at some 76:16 point and then you have a base to work 76:19 from because 76:20 you've kind of created all right now we 76:22 see the mirror 76:23 now we see what we need to fix and we 76:25 have a base to work from 76:27 right now white people and black people 76:29 in all of our dysfunction we have no 76:31 bases 76:32 we have no bases and so we're just 76:36 basically this ball of dysfunction 76:38 rolling down a hill getting bigger and 76:40 bigger and bigger and bigger until it 76:42 just implodes 76:43 and the worst thing about the implosion 76:46 is that when it implodes we're just left 76:48 with a whole bunch of scattered ass 76:49 pieces and there's nobody with a mind 76:52 for how to fix it 76:55 your point about uh segregation and 76:57 integration i i had this 77:00 you know i'm i know i'm radical and i 77:02 know i'm militant i know it 77:03 and i had this like a 77:07 epiphany which isn't news but you know 77:11 when 77:12 integration half happened it was such a 77:14 deterioration of black communities in 77:17 black cultures 77:18 because when we were segregated you know 77:20 we had black doctors 77:22 we have black banks we had you know 77:26 our own ecosystem that we function in 77:29 and move 77:30 freely and then integration happens and 77:33 for whatever reason you think that the 77:34 ice is colder 77:36 with the white doctors or that you'll 77:39 get better care 77:40 there and so then we see a complete loss 77:45 of culture of community of support 77:48 within our own neighborhoods 77:50 of black people which all you know 77:53 segregation integration happened 77:55 over 50 years ago now but we still 77:57 there's so much residual there 77:59 that's why they're so few you know like 78:01 i'm trying to find a black therapist 78:03 you know how hard it was for me to go on 78:06 i'm talking to my insurance and i'm like 78:08 can you tell me if there's a black one 78:09 they're like we're not allowed to 78:10 disclose that information i'm like 78:12 i'm googling people trying to image 78:14 search 78:16 you know because it's such a priority 78:18 for me to feel like 78:19 to i think it was ebony or sam or 78:21 somebody's point earlier about cultural 78:23 competency 78:24 you know if i'm having a discussion 78:26 about my mental health 78:27 it's important for me to have that 78:29 discussion with another black woman 78:31 and i have to do so much extra to be 78:34 able to identify if the person that i'll 78:36 be speaking to as a professional 78:37 actually identifies him this way and 78:39 that is 78:40 i think rooted from 78:43 the early times of integration 78:47 truly and it is a disservice to our 78:50 community 78:51 and i think we have to if we talk about 78:53 discomfort we have to talk about comfort 78:56 also and i think that you know nobody 78:59 wants to 79:00 admit that if i 79:04 listen if i'm a white woman 79:08 and i have a baby 79:11 it's going to make me feel good to have 79:14 another white woman 79:16 who has similar experiences by my side 79:19 because she understands me she gets me 79:22 she understands my life experience 79:24 it's like that movie the avatar with the 79:26 blue people 79:27 i can't remember what their little 79:29 saying was but they would say when they 79:30 greeted each other i see you 79:32 like you need to see people and it's not 79:35 enough to just see them on the top you 79:36 have to be able to see 79:38 like i can meet a black woman find out 79:41 how many kids she has 79:43 find out where she works at and i kind 79:45 of instinctively know what her household 79:47 looks like when she gets home 79:48 because at some point in my life i was 79:50 at that point so i understand some of 79:52 the things she's experiencing 79:54 because i understand her i understand 79:55 what i don't just see 79:57 her socioeconomic background as numbers 80:00 but i see it as a lifestyle a way of 80:02 being a way of understanding life a 80:04 perspective or world view 80:05 so there's things that there's just 80:07 insight that i have and i think it has 80:09 less to do with color 80:11 and it has more to do with culture so 80:13 it's it i could have a white woman who i 80:15 grew up in the same neighborhood with 80:17 and have had the same experiences 80:19 and i would feel more comfortable having 80:21 her around than i would a black woman 80:23 who grew up two neighborhoods down 80:25 has completely different cultural 80:27 experiences than i have 80:29 so i think we have to stop making it 80:30 about race and make it about culture but 80:32 we also have to understand that this is 80:34 america 80:34 even though we say segregation is over 80:36 that is not true 80:38 we still live in an extremely segregated 80:40 country so to say i have the same 80:42 culture is almost like saying i have the 80:45 same race 80:46 now if it were different we wouldn't be 80:47 having this conversation 80:49 because there would be no such thing as 80:51 really black motherhood there would be 80:53 american motherhood 80:54 and american motherhood at different 80:56 levels but 80:57 just the fact that we have something 80:59 called black motherhood 81:00 just the fact that up until i would say 81:02 a decade ago you hardly even seen black 81:04 moms on tv 81:05 unless we're talking about claire 81:07 huxtable you only seen white moms on tv 81:09 so there is a there is a certain 81:12 we have to understand that this is not 81:16 about 81:16 hate it is not about 81:19 preference it is simply about wanting to 81:22 feel 81:23 comfortable in your life it is simply 81:26 about wanting to have people around 81:28 you that you know understand your 81:29 perspective it's simply about 81:31 when you go to that business first 81:33 business meeting not wanting to be the 81:35 only person in the room 81:37 that and having everybody stare at you 81:39 when you walk in 81:42 thank you muffy wow this was a 81:45 incredible conversation and we are at 81:49 six o'clock can you believe it 81:51 um and i really i really want to 81:54 continue this conversation 81:56 um and maybe we'll have a panel number 81:59 three 82:00 um what do you guys think about that 82:02 muffy tara 82:04 and jessica please went in if we managed 82:06 to get the exhibition 82:07 extended yeah okay that's what 82:10 i'm gonna work on this week um and 82:14 and i just wanted to thank everyone and 82:16 muffy the question i had earlier that 82:18 was kind of 82:18 um that i think you kind of answered 82:20 which was 82:22 so cause you had initially said at the 82:23 very beginning of the panel that 82:25 um you know you made this choice to away 82:28 from the institutions of the school 82:30 to to you know transform the home or 82:33 take the rhythms and you talked about 82:34 the rhythms of the home and using that 82:36 as 82:37 you know harnessing that for for 82:39 teaching and learning and pedagogy 82:41 and so my my question was was going to 82:43 be 82:44 um what is the you know 82:47 are schools just the structure 82:49 themselves their white supremacist 82:51 structures so is there any way to 82:53 um shift them or is it about 82:57 re de-centering re-centering 83:00 to another site whether that is the home 83:03 um 83:04 and i think meaning like can we change 83:06 the school system as it is you know is 83:08 that possible 83:09 um or is it about a total reimagining 83:13 um but i think when you start talking 83:15 about 83:16 community and intergenerationality and 83:18 inter-community care 83:20 like that and and how you said like just 83:22 um you know 83:23 doing the negating the little things 83:26 one at a time like that was uh to me 83:29 that kind of answered that question 83:30 which was 83:31 that uh it's not about just taking down 83:34 an institution 83:35 starting a new one it's about this slow 83:38 total uh cultural shift and viewpoint 83:42 and so i really really appreciated that 83:44 and then also i know we're at the end 83:46 but i did want to 83:47 throw a question out there to the artist 83:50 because you know tara 83:51 and jessica i have to say are just 83:53 amazing accomplished artists 83:54 and curators um and uh 83:58 thinking about the ways in which art 84:00 operates in the space 84:01 or could operate it's just and i'll just 84:04 you know maybe it's a rhetorical 84:05 question to ponder 84:07 because we're at our time limit but um 84:08 anyway so those are the ideas that i was 84:10 thinking about as you were talking 84:11 and especially um you know the 84:14 dysfunction of 84:16 whiteness of white uh culture um 84:20 that is the the clearly the biggest 84:24 threat to our entire 84:27 you know safety and ability to be a 84:31 functional society 84:32 right now and so um you know that is is 84:35 clearly something that that 84:37 is needs to be addressed and 84:40 and part of that is you know the default 84:42 of whiteness so 84:43 whiteness doesn't get talked about in 84:45 white communities because 84:47 there's never an acknowledgement that 84:50 we are something that white people are 84:52 something that is different 84:53 well why it is um visible until it's 84:56 interrupted 84:59 absolutely so anyway sorry to throw that 85:01 all right at the end when as fran was 85:03 like it's the end of the panel 85:04 um but i just wanted to put those those 85:07 comments in and i just want to just 85:08 thank 85:09 all of you and all the participants for 85:11 this amazing amazing panel 85:13 thank you amy and yeah i i you know this 85:16 is not a conversation i want to end and 85:18 i think 85:19 this is a conversation that needs to 85:21 continue so 85:22 we'll we'll try to just throwing this 85:24 out there to all our participants 85:26 just keep an eye out on anthropology of 85:29 mother dot com our instagram page and 85:31 our 85:32 facebook page in the carlo university 85:34 art gallery facebook and instagram page 85:37 we'll we'll do this again there's 85:39 important conversation here 85:41 that needs to be continued and i really 85:43 appreciate again 85:44 mafi jessica tara for joining us on a 85:48 friday afternoon slash evening um 85:50 again anthropology will be anthropology 85:53 of motherhood 85:55 we is planning to be extended it was 85:57 supposed to close 85:58 january 29th but i think we'll be able 86:00 to get some um 86:02 uh in-person visits there if anyone's 86:04 interested 86:05 yes i had a surprise in person visited 86:07 during the 86:09 the um the the the meeting and it's 86:12 actually someone 86:13 um she's the chair of the art department 86:15 at seton hill and she mentioned that she 86:17 knew tara 86:18 um and there was a trustee member so 86:21 it was a surprise but i'm so glad they 86:23 got to come in and see it regardless so 86:26 definitely um working i'll have an 86:29 update next week about 86:30 um extending the show so thank you 86:33 i just want to say one more thing uh if 86:35 you're around or in pittsburgh 86:37 this coming week on january 22nd 86:40 uh tarafe has an exhibition that will be 86:43 opening at brew house 86:44 called roots run deep so you can 86:46 register online to get an 86:48 advanced ticket um i highly recommend 86:52 you go see this show 86:53 tara is brilliant and has been working 86:55 on this exhibition for quite some time 86:57 and i think it's going to be a great 86:59 show i know it's going to be a great 87:00 show so make sure to watch 87:02 one of our featured artists we're so 87:05 excited 87:09 again do you have the link to register 87:13 for yeah i'm gonna swap it out i had the 87:17 link for this in my bio so i'm going to 87:18 put the brewhouse link in my bio 87:21 and everybody can come and see all the 87:22 work 87:25 okay i love you all thank you everybody 87:29 thank you thank you so much thank you 87:32 guys have a good night 87:34 good night 88:04 all right there all right 88:07 cool we're good i think that went really 88:09 well yeah that was